abortion.

[sammiedebull]

Do you agree with abortion, if you do, did you ever think that you could have been one which was aborted? If you dont, is it because of religion or? also, what is the girl was raped, what if she made a mistake, is there any way that you should have the baby?

Personally i think you should NEVER have an abortyion othe than if teh girl is raped, i still have mixed feelings about that, but i do think that in a rape scenario that the girl has all the righ to make the decition.

any lawyers or law students (samd and rene), dont they want to make a new law to ban abortion all together? if so, are there any clauses in there which talk about certain situations or scenarios. I think one of them is that if it puts the mother at risk, it will *be ok by law and of course by religion.

[Anonymous]

yes its very wrong :(

[Sal Izo]

Edited: *I double posted, sorry guys. *My post below is the one I wanted to post.

[Sal Izo]

Abortion is a very serious and touchy issue. *I'm going to pick my words carefully on this one cause I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea. *The way I feel about this is very similar to how I feel about alot of things: *Everybody has gotta do what they gotta do. *This is a free country, it's America. *Yes, there are rules and boundaries we must abide by, but in many other things we have to be in control of our own destiny. *I'm not going to sit here and say abortion is good or bad. *For some people it may be good due to certain situations and circumstances, and for some other people maybe it's not in their best interest for whatever reason. *To take away the choice might cause alot of problems, and wouldn't taking away the choice be taking away freedom or control of your life? *Some people were raped, some made a mistake, some people are not ready, and etc. *

Kids need devoted families so they are brought up right in this world, so it can be a better world for not just us, but for our own kids as well. *Taking away abortion could just escalate these problem matters. *There is the church issue against abortion, not to mention the politically correct people's view on this because they feel a life is taken away, among other things. *These are all valid reasons. *I don't *necessarily agree with taking away abortion completely, I know for some people it really got them out of a jam and let them avoid a really huge possible problem if they had a baby. *Maybe if it's controlled or governed in a different or more/less strict manner, maybe that will do the trick. *But to abolish it completely and not let anyone use it all unless it's just rape or something, than I don't agree with that. *People can be guided and shown the way with the laws and rules, but in the end they should still be able to choose the path for their destiny. *Just my opinion on this.

[sammiedebull]

1) yes, but they could always give the kid up and someone will adopt them.

2) also what if you were aborted?

3) also its against any relifgion to have abortions.

4) why cant people be responsable and not have un-protected sex?

5) I think the law of the land should stand to take a stand on this and ban abortions.

6) it all comes back to bieng responsable and not making such mistakes.

[Anonymous]

Sal i agree with u at some point...as for raping yes i understand what you mean by that..but your saying some ppl made a mistake? its ok to spread their legs and have sex but isnt ok to spread their legs & bring out a baby? *if some arnt ready something called protection..yes i know it doesnt work at all times but what about birth control pills? i dont think its right to have an abortion its wrong...thats like murdering someone in my opinion.ppl who do that make me sick...

[sammiedebull]

I agree 100%!

[Anonymous]

1) yes, but they could always give the kid up and someone will adopt them.

2) also what if you were aborted?

3) also its against any relifgion to have abortions.

4) why cant people be responsable and not have un-protected sex?

5) I think the law of the land should stand to take a stand on this and ban abortions.

6) it all comes back to bieng responsable and not making such mistakes.


i AGREE 110%
your right what about adopt? a lot of ppl would adopt.

im not sure if this is true but someone told me that my own bestfriend had an abortion...:( thats why she dropped out of school at the age of 16 or 17...but she never told me she did..she said it wasnt true..but i think it was true :( uff it makes me sick.........its sad i cry about it sometimes when someone says they had an abortion.

i also know this one girl she wanted to have an abortion before she did the baby was already dead inside her stomach..i call that a dirty hoe.

[Sal Izo]

1) yes, but they could always give the kid up and someone will adopt them.

2) also what if you were aborted?

3) also its against any relifgion to have abortions.

4) why cant people be responsable and not have un-protected sex?

5) I think the law of the land should stand to take a stand on this and ban abortions.

6) it all comes back to bieng responsable and not making such mistakes.

All valid points Sammie, I'm going to answer them. *I'm not right or wrong, and the same goes for you as well. *It's all personal opinion here, and I just want you to know that I'm just answering these questions, not trying to argue with you, no hard feelings.

1. *Adoption is a good thing. *But it doesn't always work out, nothing is a 100%. *There are times when the old parent wants the kid back and a war is started. *Who suffers the most from this? *The poor kid because they are caught in the middle. *Also, some adoptive parents are good people, others might not be so good and the kid gets neglected and not treated well for a variety of reasons. *It goes both ways.

2. *Anybody could have been aborted. *But I wasn't, and you weren't. *That's not something that's in either of our control. *I have no personal control of being born or not, just like I have no control that I was born Chaldean (I like being Chaldean BTW). *I like to concentrate on the people that actually made it and are here, not would of's, could of's, or should of's.

3. *Yes it is against some if not all religions to have abortions. *I'm not too educated on this particular manner, but I'll still give my opinion. *I guess it will be considered a sin, but lots of things are sins as well. *Adultry is a sin, stealing is a sin, my foul mouth when I curse for example is a sin. *We make mistakes, a tolerable mistake that we acknowledge and learn from should not hold us down. *Shouldn't we be forgiven?

4. *Some people aren't responsible Sammie. *That can be people of young or old age or whatever. *Also, even when people are responsible and have protected sex, this can still happen to them. *They were being safe and responsible, and look what happened, they still had a bady. *Being absent from sex and sexual activities is the only way to prevent it. *But what about those who do want to have sex? *Does that make them the devil, maybe a mistake happened. *Don't they have the right to correct it and not have their life ruined? *Sex is not going to stop, we both know that, nor should it. *It's everyones choice to do as they wish.

5. *The law of the land should take a stand and ban abortions? *I can support them taking a stand and trying to control things better, that's reasonable depeding on the action they choose. *But to get rid of it and tell us we can't do this, or can't do that. *That's wrong and will be met with lots of opposition, as it should. *We shouldn't be forced to do something if we don't have to. *We should have the right to choose, isn't that what's supposed to make this country so great. *Taking away a reasonable right is taking away freedom.

6. *Mistakes are going to happen regardless if you were responsible or not Sammie. *It goes both ways. *Why do we all think mistakes are a bad thing. *I mean we learn from them. *The only time a mistake is bad is if you keep doing it over and over, and never learning from it. *That is a mistake, and the person would have their own self to blame. *Mistakes are put in our life from God, it's a learning experience. *But what if I lived my whole life in the right manner, and I made this one mistake. *It could have a huge effect on the rest of my life, don't I deserve a chance to correct and learn from this mistake? *I lived a whole life of good and right choices, but from what you're saying I deserve to suffer from one mistake or choice? *I don't believe in that, the man and woman should be able to do and choose for what's in their best interest.

[Sal Izo]

1) yes, but they could always give the kid up and someone will adopt them.

2) also what if you were aborted?

3) also its against any relifgion to have abortions.

4) why cant people be responsable and not have un-protected sex?

5) I think the law of the land should stand to take a stand on this and ban abortions.

6) it all comes back to bieng responsable and not making such mistakes.


i AGREE 110%
your right what about adopt? a lot of ppl would adopt.

im not sure if this is true but someone told me that my own bestfriend had an abortion...:( thats why she dropped out of school at the age of 16 or 17...but she never told me she did..she said it wasnt true..but i think it was true :( uff it makes me sick.........its sad i cry about it sometimes when someone says they had an abortion.

i also know this one girl she wanted to have an abortion before she did the baby was already dead inside her stomach..i call that a dirty hoe.

Hunnie, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. *Each situation and circumstance is different. *As far as your friend that dropped out, let me present this scenario to you. *A 16 or 17 year old girl gets pregnant, she had her whole life ahead of her. *Isn't a girl in a situation like that more prone to dropping out of school and putting a hold on this vital time of her life? *Isn't she going to somehow take care of the baby. *An abortion would be painful and hurtful in many ways, especially emotionally and phsycologically, I understand it's not for everyone. *But some people are able to get over that and move on. *By not having a baby she can still stay in school and work on her future. *I see more situations succeeding like that with people doing better after having an abortion, than situations where the girl has the baby and is *possibly held down. *There are exceptions to the rule, but I think you have a better chance of doing something at a young age like that when the baby is not in the way.

[sammiedebull]

your points are taken, i understand, but not everything is that simple my friend. look at my points, they are quite simple.

1) atleast when an adoption is made, the kid has a chance, i think that what anyone asks for, just a chance to live, proser, have a good life, if the baby is dead, ther eis no chance for anything, nothing, no future, no hope.

2) you had a chance, i hope you understand that you will support so that others will be born.

3) to me, this is like murder, you are killing another human bieng. if you do that now, you will go to jail for life. it means teh same to me!

4) have sex as much as you want, but there are 2 simple things : 1) condom and 2) birth control, i dont know how hard that is.

5) We do not allow people to kill each other or thier kids!

6) some mistakes should not happen, killing a baby is nto a mistake, having sex with no birth control and no condom is not a mistake, bieng unsafe is not a mistake, people have learned from thes emistakes already, they have commkercials, classes, school teachings, parents and other who always stress not to mek these mistakes. If you make a mistake like cross a stop sign and you get a ticket, no big deal, no one was hurt, no one dies and now you must be careful later. If you make a mistake, drive drunk and kill someone, than you are in trouble, you cant make such mistakes in life. also you dont only learn from your mistakes, you learn from everyones mistakes!

also, do you know how abortions are done? they tie or grab the abbys neck, they twist it and either break the kneck or chock the baby and than bring it out sufficated or shattered. To me, that is bullshit, its not right, its not fair to that kid.

its an interesting conversation, but if you truly believe that everyone deserves a chance, than i guess you would want to ban abortion.

[Rita]

sammie, this has nothing to do with the topic but are you dislexic?

[Sal Izo]

your points are taken, i understand, but not everything is that simple my friend. look at my points, they are quite simple.

1) atleast when an adoption is made, the kid has a chance, i think that what anyone asks for, just a chance to live, proser, have a good life, if the baby is dead, ther eis no chance for anything, nothing, no future, no hope.

2) you had a chance, i hope you understand that you will support so that others will be born.

3) to me, this is like murder, you are killing another human bieng. if you do that now, you will go to jail for life. it means teh same to me!

4) have sex as much as you want, but there are 2 simple things : 1) condom and 2) birth control, i dont know how hard that is.

5) We do not allow people to kill each other or thier kids!

6) some mistakes should not happen, killing a baby is nto a mistake, having sex with no birth control and no condom is not a mistake, bieng unsafe is not a mistake, people have learned from thes emistakes already, they have commkercials, classes, school teachings, parents and other who always stress not to mek these mistakes. If you make a mistake like cross a stop sign and you get a ticket, no big deal, no one was hurt, no one dies and now you must be careful later. If you make a mistake, drive drunk and kill someone, than you are in trouble, you cant make such mistakes in life. also you dont only learn from your mistakes, you learn from everyones mistakes!

also, do you know how abortions are done? they tie or grab the abbys neck, they twist it and either break the kneck or chock the baby and than bring it out sufficated or shattered. To me, that is bullshit, its not right, its not fair to that kid.

its an interesting conversation, but if you truly believe that everyone deserves a chance, than i guess you would want to ban abortion.

The points you have made are understanding Sammie. *It's true, they are simple, but on that same note so are mine. *We share a difference of opinion and view. *If your say that your statement is simple, than there is no reason to say that mine is not simple as well, which it was. *You posed simple questions, and I'm posing simple answers, that's all there is to it. *

1. *Yes an adopted kid has a chance, but that's not set in stone, nothing is. *If the unwanted child wasn't born into a bad situation in the first place, there would be no need for this talk about adoption. *Something to think about no?

2. *All of us have a chance or had a chance, haven't we? *But doesn't someone deserve a chance to not inherit a bad situation, especially when they can do something to change that. *If you say a baby deserves a chance to live, don't I deserve the chance to not have my life messed up by having a child that wasn't wanted, or by having a child when it's just not the right time for a variety of factors.

3. *All talk aside, you can call it murder if you want. *That's fine, but you can call it other things that aren't as harsh as well. *Are we murdering a being that's already born, a being that's already seen life and light of day? *There is a difference in my opinion Sammie. *A mother and father opting to not have a species that's in the body of the mother and not developed fully yet isn't the same as someone taking a gun and shooting their 10 year old son in the head, killing him. *Tell me, is that still the same? *I would use the term true murder in a more precise manner.

4. *Condom and birth control is not hard at all, it's quite easy and elementary actually. *But neither of them are 100% measures. *A condom can break for example, and a pill maybe for some reason just didn't work. *I tried to be responsible by taking these and other measures excluding being absent from sex, but just by luck of the draw the odds beat me and a baby is on the way. *It's not that hard for a mistake to happen and for the odds to beat us. *We can never say never. *

5. *No we don't allow the killing of each other and our children. *Who said anything about killing one another. *In an abortion, the baby (which is UNBORN, hasn't seen light of day, is not fully developed and ready for civilization, etc.) is the argument at hand. *Not me killing people that are already currently living. *That's different, if I did that than yes I'll the first person to call myself a killer and murderer. *Once again there is a difference habibi.

6. *Some mistakes just do happen Sammie. *For example what if I had protected sex, I used the pill, and yet I still ended up getting the girl pregnant. *That's a mistake isn't it? *Mistakes are all over, in big and small ways. *You will always make mistakes, so please don't tell me people learned already. *We are always learning my man, no matter how much we think we know, there is plenty more that we don't. *You say we can't make some mistakes. *Why is that? *Aren't we human and prone to these kinds of things, especially some people more than others. *I learn from not only my mistakes, but also from the mistakes of others. *Maybe you operate differently, but I operate in that manner just fine, no problem. *That doesn't mean that just for that I will never make a mistake again. *It will just mean that I might be more aware of some factors and I might do a better job of avoiding repeated mistakes, not to mention maybe I have a better chance of not making as many mistakes, but once again not 100% set in stone. *

This has been a very interesting conversation Sammie. *I've enjoyed discussing it with you. *As far as the process for abortion, I'm pretty sure there is a couple different ways they go about it. *Either way it's no walk in the park and can be quite gruesome (it's not easy, but lots of things aren't easy), but some people get over it and feel the need to sacrifice and go with some pain now, so that they can avoid even worse pain in the future. *I do believe everyone deserves a chance. *Let me fix that, everyone that's living and breathing at this direct moment deserves a chance for a happy present, and an even brighter future. *

Maybe some people don't want to suffer and have their life messed up Sammie (For some people a pregnancy can ruin everything). *Just because you might not agree with it, that doesn't mean that others have to agree with your way of thinking. *That's too one sided if you ask me. *Let them have a choice, some people will do it, and some won't. *But let them dictate their own lives in the manner they want, not the manner the government and environmentalist groups want. *They can do what they want, but let them give the same respect to others and let those people do what they want as well. *It's only fair isn't it. *Either way, good discussion, no hard feelings.

[Teffo]

i don't believe in abortion just like i don't believe in the dealth penatly...

we humans need to stop pretending to be God...

and this is not a natural thing...just like cloning.

people drink a lot of stupid juice nowadays.

[sammiedebull]

I suck at spelling, i know that.

If i take my time and check my posts 100x like others do on the board, than i would get it perfect, but remember rita, we are not in school, no teacher will be checking my spelling :)

also are you a hooker ;) joking :)

[sammiedebull]

sal, i highly respect your view. we disagree, but it was excellent discussing it with you.

unlike others on the site, you can share a view without getting upset and stayed away from name calling even though we disagee, i respect your opinions and i apperiate that you also respect mines.

You bring your "own" thoughs and opinions and views. I respect that you dont just read it from a book.

thank you and it was a wonderful discussion.

[Rita]

I suck at spelling, i know that.

If i take my time and check my posts 100x like others do on the board, than i would get it perfect, but remember rita, we are not in school, no teacher will be checking my spelling :)

also are you a hooker ;) joking :)

u wish i was your hooker. *:roll:

I never check my spelling and it is not always perfect but come on... u mispell almost every word and all the letters are misplaced. *:no no:

[sammiedebull]

hehe haha, bite me. na, i dont wish you were a hooker, than our streets will have some really ugly hookers, and for guys like samd (joking, relax) that would be a bad thing.

Honestly, you are to fake. just be rita :) you cant say sex is good in one topic and than talk about the church in another topic.

Anyway, i respect your views.

thx and have fun.

its all harmless fun, so relax.

you have to admit, its not only me, but this samd guy really is a wierd cat, he just copies shit out of books, talks about shit that makes no sense.

also, please dont even bring up success, business, intellegence, just ask others about the site on that and they know what i am all about.

also asking me to upload my pic, do i have to prove something to you? i have nothing to prove to you or anyone here. i dont even know you. I have seen your pic, you look ok, i did not attack you if i though you look different in every picture, i did not say rita, that tan looks horrible, did it :) i am not that kind of person, i like to keep it real, nothing is perfect.

[Sal Izo]

sal, i highly respect your view. we disagree, but it was excellent discussing it with you.

unlike others on the site, you can share a view without getting upset and stayed away from name calling even though we disagee, i respect your opinions and i apperiate that you also respect mines.

You bring your "own" thoughs and opinions and views. I respect that you dont just read it from a book.

thank you and it was a wonderful discussion.

Thank you for the kind words Sammie. *I really do appreciate it. *I highly respect your views and opinions on this subject and many others as well. *The discussion was great, I hope we can have more discussions like this in the future. *Maybe we'll agree on the next one, lol. *Either way good stuff, thanks again man, take care.

[sammiedebull]

anytime!

also rita sucks, literally ;)

[Rita]

hehe haha, bite me. na, i dont wish you were a hooker, than our streets will have some really ugly hookers, and for guys like samd (joking, relax) that would be a bad thing.

Honestly, you are to fake. just be rita :) you cant say sex is good in one topic and than talk about the church in another topic.

Anyway, i respect your views.

thx and have fun.

its all harmless fun, so relax.

you have to admit, its not only me, but this samd guy really is a wierd cat, he just copies shit out of books, talks about shit that makes no sense.

also, please dont even bring up success, business, intellegence, just ask others about the site on that and they know what i am all about.

also asking me to upload my pic, do i have to prove something to you? i have nothing to prove to you or anyone here. i dont even know you. I have seen your pic, you look ok, i did not attack you if i though you look different in every picture, i did not say rita, that tan looks horrible, did it :) i am not that kind of person, i like to keep it real, nothing is perfect.

Here we go again... *:bang: *:bang: *:bang:

I'd rather read SamD's posts (unlike you, I understand him) than to read you making up stuff about what I say. Once again... I DID NOT SAY SEX IS GOOD! Please find my quote on that and remind me. There's a difference when someone says if someone has sex, it's none of my business and I don't judge. People do what they want. I can't stop them & I don't care. What people do is their business. I live my own life and do what I want to do 4 myself. I guess if you knew anything about God, you'd know that you shouldn't make judgements about people.

BTW, I just asked about your photo cuz I wanted you to prove how ugly you truly are. LMAO j/k

[sammiedebull]

haha, dont make me even bring up your pics, you and your fake tan ;)

its ok to be white rita, ou dont hav eto fake and bake, be real, keep it real :)

the only reason anyone replies to the guys posts is to tell him what an idiot he is.

[Rita]

haha, dont make me even bring up your pics, you and your fake tan ;)

its ok to be white rita, ou dont hav eto fake and bake, be real, keep it real :)

the only reason anyone replies to the guys posts is to tell him what an idiot he is.

For your info, that tan wasn't really that dark... it was just the camera. Second, I got my tan over the summer while sunbathing. I didn't get it from a tanning salon. Third, I'm olive complected already. Although, I'm sure that 99.9% of the people here have gone tanning and sunbathed.

You might not have to worry about sunbathing or tanning because I'm assuming you are almost as dark as a black man, yemenese or an egyptian.

[Rita]

BTW, wtf does a tan have anything to do with my previous comment? I post about you putting words in my mouth and saying that I tan the only explanation or comeback u come up with?

[sammiedebull]

well, you asked for a pic, and than you said i wont post it because i am ugly ;) rita, you are forgetting to much :)

[Rita]

well, you asked for a pic, and than you said i wont post it because i am ugly ;) rita, you are forgetting to much :)

point is you completely skipped through my argument and replied only 2 my sarcasm... which btw i did iclude i was J/K. U can only answer easy things but chose 2 ignore where i asked you 2 prove what you claim.

Sammie, they have vitamins for your memory and they have medication to control your attention deficit disorder. *:roll:

[sammiedebull]

hehe, haha, ADD.

anyway rita, relax, go have some fun, its friday night, im headed out also, so calm down, you sound like samd now, you guys go on rampages :)

anyway, no harm meant. relax and have fun.

heading out of work now, see ya.

enjoy your week end everyone.!

[GreenEyeZchal705]

We have already had this discussion. *In my opinion abortion is a disgusting act and should be banned world wide. *There is nothing more sinful then ending the life of an innocent child. *If a girl were raped and decided to have an abortion which would mean killing a human life i dont see her as being much better than the rapist who got her pregnant. If you arent ready for a baby then dont have sex. If you cant live without sex then like someone else said this is America which means anyone can go and get birth control absolutely free of charge and dont give me the excuse that it doesnt work. *If you are on birth control and you get pregnant then consider your baby to be the next einstein because the pill is very close to being 100% effective.

For those of you who are so pro-choice do me a favor and read the following procedures on how abortions are performed and then tell me it should be allowed to go on

Abortion Procedures

Before 14 Weeks

Suction Aspiration *

For this procedure you lie on your back with your feet in stirrups, and the doctor applies a shot of anesthetic to your cervix to reduce pain. Your cervical muscle is stretched with cone-shaped rods until the opening is wide enough to allow the abortion tool to pass into your uterus. Then the doctor guides the suction device through the cervix and into your uterus.
When the suction machine is turned on you feel the strong force of the vacuum which is used to pull the placenta and fetus into parts small enough to pass out of your body through the suction tube. During the surgery the doctor cannot see the inside of your uterus and operates by touch alone, trying to detach the fetus from the wall of the uterus with the powerful suction tip.

Dilation and Curettage *

The doctor opens your cervix, as described above, but in this case the abortion is done with a loop-shaped knife which he uses to scrape the wall of your uterus, cutting the fetus and placenta into smaller parts and pulling them out of your body through the cervix.

After 14 Weeks

Dilatation and Evacuation *
Because the bones of the fetus are larger and stronger by this time, the doctor uses a medical instrument resembling pliers to pull the fetus into smaller parts and removes those parts from your body through the cervix. This procedure requires that your cervix be opened wider than with "Suction" or "D and C" methods, and there is greater risk of harm to your reproductive organs.

After 16 Weeks

Saline or Prostaglandin *

This is injected into the amniotic fluid that surrounds the fetus in your uterus. To do this, the doctor inserts a long needle into your abdomen until the tip of the needle penetrates the uterus. He then injects one of these substances into the amniotic fluid. Saline is a poisonous substance that eventually kills the fetus. Prostaglandin causes the muscle tissue of the mother to push the fetus out of the uterus. Both saline and Prostaglandin methods would require you to "give birth" to a dead fetus. the labor that proceeds birth is usually long and painful.

Late-Term Abortion

Dilatation and Extraction *

Laminaria (a type of seaweed that expands when moist) is used to dilate the cervix over a two-day period. On the third day, the membranes are ruptured. An ultrasound is used to locate the lower extremities. The doctor then uses large forceps to grasp a leg and pull it down into the vagina. After the body is delivered, the skull is lodged at the cervical opening. The doctor makes an incision in the base of the fetal skull, inserts a suction catheter and evacuates the skull. This technique may be safer than a "D and C" abortion because the fetus is not dismembered in the uterus; however, damage may occur due to extensive stretching of the cervix during the procedure.

"Abortion Procedures" reproduced with permission of Frontlines Publishing; Grand Rapids MI


So this innocent baby is cut up into pieces or poisoned or their brains are sucked out. *Yeah lets allow this to go on... I mean if you really arent ready for a baby why not pick one of these and torture an innocent soul.

[Samuel]

sammie. *Do i really make you feel so insecure that you must mention me in topics i haven't yet participated in? *Does the fact that i'm considerably smarter than you, your entire progeny, and anything you are capable of breeding bother you? *Does it feel unfair that after i prove you to be a dumbass, i could (hypothetically speaking) just as easily beat the fvck out of you, and make crawl back to your computer like the b!tch that you are?

Or how about the fact that based off of just appearance... 9 out of 10 girls would pick me? *The only exception being a lesbian? *I guess coupling these factors can make for the insecure b!tch that you are. *

Join the club. *There's at least one other member.

[Samuel]

hehe haha, bite me. na, i dont wish you were a hooker, than our streets will have some really ugly hookers, and for guys like samd (joking, relax) that would be a bad thing. *

Honestly, you are to fake. just be rita :) you cant say sex is good in one topic and than talk about the church in another topic.

Anyway, i respect your views.

thx and have fun.

its all harmless fun, so relax.

you have to admit, its not only me, but this samd guy really is a wierd cat, he just copies shit out of books, talks about shit that makes no sense.

also, please dont even bring up success, business, intellegence, just ask others about the site on that and they know what i am all about.

also asking me to upload my pic, do i have to prove something to you? i have nothing to prove to you or anyone here. i dont even know you. I have seen your pic, you look ok, i did not attack you if i though you look different in every picture, i did not say rita, that tan looks horrible, did it :) i am not that kind of person, i like to keep it real, nothing is perfect.

Here we go again... *:bang: *:bang: *:bang: *

I'd rather read SamD's posts (unlike you, I understand him) than to read you making up stuff about what I say. Once again... I DID NOT SAY SEX IS GOOD! Please find my quote on that and remind me. There's a difference when someone says if someone has sex, it's none of my business and I don't judge. People do what they want. I can't stop them & I don't care. What people do is their business. I live my own life and do what I want to do 4 myself. I guess if you knew anything about God, you'd know that you shouldn't make judgements about people.

BTW, I just asked about your photo cuz I wanted you to prove how ugly you truly are. LMAO j/k

you see rita. *Ugly people whom are further burdened with the tragedy of being stupid, scrawny and helpless must often resort to using morality to undermine you. *What difference does it make had Rita condoned Sex in another thread? *Do you need a "morality pass" in order to participate in a particular thread? * It's funny how sammie criticizes me for resenting stupid opinions, yet he feels the necessity to resent people who lack the morality he was forced to abide by. * Admit it sammie.. *The reason you don't have sex, is because you can't have sex. *At least not with another female. *You use this morality bullshit as a guise to cover the fact that you are a repulsive asshole, and that the only girl willing to fvck you would have to be blind, hairy, and equally repulsive. *


Cut the bullshit, "be real" and seek help. *Insecurity will eat at your soul.

[sammiedebull]

haha, i think we got to you ;) i really do, relax man, its only a discussion board, its for fun, no one has anything to prove to anyone. also as asked in a previous discussion, what have you accomplished in your life which make syou so great. please tell us anything other than your 10 cent education which your parents pay for.

so please, prove it to us, who are you, what are you,w hat have you accomplished to make you better than everyone in this site, tell us?

I never brag about anything i know or do or what i have, but i think i can hold my own :) just ask others who know me on the site and you will know what i am talking about!!!

anyway, see ya and have a good night :)

also, for the love of god, relax, its only a forum, no hard feelings, its a computer, all you can obviously do is hide behind it.

[sammiedebull]

so you are saying a female or male who decide to have sex for morale purposes cant get sex? once again, you are not making sense, really, just stop and read your posts.

its not about whether she could have sex and so on, how could one comitt sins left and right and go to church, how could one do such a thing, it does not make any sense to me?

is god forgiving, sure he is, but not to those who continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.

again, you are the left winger.

also if anyone things i started this, please go back and read the posts about "affirmivive action".

This guy has NOTHING better to do than pick fights with people on a discyssion board, if someone can go check the first 10 replies on that thread and say this is my fault, i will never come to this board again.

lets see it, other than rita and samd obviously as they are now a team of evil ;)

[Rita]

YOU started it!!! LMAO, did u leave yet? :)

[sammiedebull]

I just got back :) Im joking rita, PM.

[meme913]

I feel that it is up to the two parties. It is up to the person not to the government.

[GreenEyeZchal705]

I feel that it is up to the two parties. It is up to the person not to the government.

Well i think any person with half a brain would consider the procedures i listed in my previous post barbaric if they were done to a newborn or any human being *but if the baby is in the womb then its ok because we dont want the government telling us what to do? *I think this keep the government out of our choice excuse LAME.

[meme913]

I feel that it is up to the two parties. It is up to the person not to the government.

Well i think any person with half a brain would consider the procedures i listed in my previous post barbaric if they were done to a newborn or any human being *but if the baby is in the womb then its ok because we dont want the government telling us what to do? *I think this keep the government out of our choice excuse LAME.

I think its not ur choice what any other person does to their body. If I want to get an abortion then I will. It is not your choice or the governments. The last time I checked my body belonged to me not U or the GOVERNMENT. So, If I want to have unprotected sex and get an abortion that my business!!!!!! I'm not saying I support abortions but I'm saying it should be the person's choice.

[Samuel]

I feel that it is up to the two parties. It is up to the person not to the government.

Well i think any person with half a brain would consider the procedures i listed in my previous post barbaric if they were done to a newborn or any human being *but if the baby is in the womb then its ok because we dont want the government telling us what to do? *I think this keep the government out of our choice excuse LAME.


It's about privacy. *Would you like the goverment to start infringing on our right to privacy? *Since it's a right not explicitly stated within the constitution, if you were to set precedents to infringment of privacy through an abortion case, how far can the government take it? *I mean... you might think it's lame, but obviously 9 supreme court justices don't think it's as clear cut as you make it. *You can't refute an excuse by calling it lame. *Make a point, or don't address the excuse at all.

[Samuel]

I feel that it is up to the two parties. It is up to the person not to the government.

Well i think any person with half a brain would consider the procedures i listed in my previous post barbaric if they were done to a newborn or any human being *but if the baby is in the womb then its ok because we dont want the government telling us what to do? *I think this keep the government out of our choice excuse LAME.

I think its not ur choice what any other person does to their body. If I want to get an abortion then I will. It is not your choice or the governments. The last time I checked my body belonged to me not U or the GOVERNMENT. So, If I want to have unprotected sex and get an abortion that my business!!!!!! I'm not saying I support abortions but I'm saying it should be the person's choice.


so then it's also your choice to abuse cocaine, right? *What right does government have to interfere with our preference to drugs, murders and whatnot? *You see.. *both sides make valid points.. but i think the supreme court has transgressed beyond this type of rhetoric. *Their job is to interpret the constitution not speculate "what jesus would do," *or grant people the right to murder their offspring.

Again, roe vs. wade was decided based on precedents regarding privacy, not necessarily choice. *You don't have the choice to do whatever you want. *That's an absurd expectation.

[renee]

Firstly, not all religions ban abortion. The Jewish Talmidic law specifies that an life exists at the "quickening," or when the mother feels the baby move. Before that point, Jewish law says abortion is alright. I don't know about Islamic law.

Secondly, NO MAN can discuss this issue without being patronizing to women.

Thirdly, MEME is right. It's a decision between the woman and God.

Fourthly, tell me about it after it happens to you or your sister.

[CAMPPAIN]

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a08/a08.gif

Courtesy of Tshirthell.com

But seriously, no man can have any say in it.

[Samuel]

But seriously, no man can have any say in it.


that's shitty, because 7 of the 9 supreme court justices are men. * :alright:

[GreenEyeZchal705]

What i meant by it being a lame excuse is this shouldnt be an issue that the government decides. *Humans should not think its ok to kill babies just because they are unborn. If i walked into a hospital and snatched *a baby out of the maternity ward and sliced its head open and vaccuumed out its brains the entire world and everyone on this site (i hope) would be disgusted and would want me killed by lethal injection, but if its a baby that is unborn it becomes the right of the mother to decide its ok to do the same thing. *Lets get real and dont lecture me on the Supreme Court Justices SamD. *I dont have to agree with what they are saying and until u address my point that abortion is nothing but murder of an unborn child I dont want to hear anymore about the govt taking away our choices. Everyone wants to pretend this is an issue about privacy and choice. *If you are allowed the choice to kill your child why aren't you allowed the choice to kill yourself. *Its your life and noone elses but the government has made it illegal to commit suicide or to be aided in committing suicde. I dont see any of you up in arms over that. *

For those of you who dont agree that abortion is murder I'm including the definition:

mur·der * n.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

v. mur·dered, mur·der·ing, mur·ders
v. tr.
To kill (another human) unlawfully.
To kill brutally or inhumanly.
To put an end to; destroy: murdered their chances.

I think abortion fits these definitions especially the one that says to kill brutally or inhumanly. *There is nothing more inhumane then the procedures used to abort a child.

[Samuel]

what exactly is the punishment for committing suicide? * :eh:


It's not really murder if you consider the fetus to be a bunch of cells, now is it? *Otherwise, your dad is probably murdering stuff everytime he drinks a beer. *

And it is a privacy issue... if you didn't know... now you know.

[sammiedebull]

privacy, na, we should not allow people to kill the kids. if they made a mistakeand got pregnant, its not the fault of the child within them.

dont give us that crap about the constitution and privacy. this is not only a legal matter but also a ethical matter.

if you are pregnant at any phase and you abort the baby it is murder.

your talking about killing cells by drinking bear and bullshit like that. fine you can inflict harm on your self.

but if you are murdering what you call "cells" which is really a human bieng, than you should be punished. If the system does not punish you, than one day god will.

people on the left say this is a invasion of privacy, whats so private about it, you are pregnant, whether it be by mistake or not, you still are carrying a human bieng, you should live up to that responsability and not cop out and say abortion is ok.

now some will again say some bull shit about cells, it may be true that by scientific terms its not *a "human" yet, but it has the potential to be a human. some guy drinking beer is not comparable to killing a baby. you once again make no sense.

i highly support the supreme court banning abortions. I highly support that they have some conditions and exceptions such as rape so the well bieng of the mother.

for those of you hiding behind privacy and the constitution, the person may have made a mistake, but that does not mean we should allow them to make another mistake. i am sure that there are many familes out there which will be able to take that child in and give it a potential future.

[Rita]

would anyone get an abortion if you were told that your child will be brain dead or any other bad handicap for that matter?

[Samuel]

thousands of people die everyday around the globe due to america's exploitation of their natural resources...leaving their countries impoverished...and their people starved... and all you people can cry about is abortion. *Your sympathetic pleas would be far more noble if they werent oozing with hypocrisy... *

In fact, we have about a million other more critical problems which baffle the most brilliant minds of this century. *Yet the only thing the conservative mind is able to comprehend is the speculative immorality behind abortion.

[Samuel]

privacy, na, we should not allow people to kill the kids. if they made a mistakeand got pregnant, its not the fault of the child within them.

dont give us that crap about the constitution and privacy. this is not only a legal matter but also a ethical matter.

if you are pregnant at any phase and you abort the baby it is murder.

your talking about killing cells by drinking bear and bullshit like that. fine you can inflict harm on your self.

but if you are murdering what you call "cells" which is really a human bieng, than you should be punished. If the system does not punish you, than one day god will.

people on the left say this is a invasion of privacy, whats so private about it, you are pregnant, whether it be by mistake or not, you still are carrying a human bieng, you should live up to that responsability and not cop out and say abortion is ok.

now some will again say some bull shit about cells, it may be true that by scientific terms its not *a "human" yet, but it has the potential to be a human. some guy drinking beer is not comparable to killing a baby. you once again make no sense.

i highly support the supreme court banning abortions. I highly support that they have some conditions and exceptions such as rape so the well bieng of the mother.

for those of you hiding behind privacy and the constitution, the person may have made a mistake, but that does not mean we should allow them to make another mistake. i am sure that there are many familes out there which will be able to take that child in and give it a potential future.

oh gawd. * :roll: *

what's so invasive about governmental control, you ask? *How about, forcing a woman to carry a baby inside of her body for nine months, despite her WILL.

What do you think a woman will do if is she doesn't want to carry the baby but is forced to do so anyway? *She'll abort the baby herself, endangering her own life. *Now i know someone potentially harming themselves doesn't make the conservative flinch, because they're essentially self-absorbed asses. * But the girl most likely has a family that cares for her.

Greenie does a good job at defining elementary words like "murders" and abortion methods...but doesn't even understand the fundamental principle behind privacy. *

Allowing for government to infringe on the implicit right to privacy is DANGEROUS. *Especially at a time where our government is using this bullshit intangible war against terrorism to chew at our civil liberties. *Setting precedents by ruling infringement of privacy constitutional would allow for patriot act 2, and other invasive bills to be passed without any legal footing for objection. *


btw..greenie... i find it amusing that you support capital punishment, but are entirely against abortions.... *what's the deal?

[sammiedebull]

I do not support capital punishment for one reason. I think its the easy way out, i think it would be much better to have them dig holes in a field for the rest of their lives.

I agree with your civil liberties comment, i think the idiot who resigned ashcroft is an idiot himself and has no clue what he was doing.

also, i know the government should not force people to do things, but when murder is involved, the governemnt should be the first one to step in.

also the issues of the patriot act has nothing to do with abortion.

I support greenies topic, i think her words were not as you say they are. she is a very smart person. I think you need to take a step back and look at yourself before you make comments of people you dont even know.

[sammiedebull]

the topics that concern you are not on th agenda of the united states.

abortion has always been a problem in the usa and will be for a long time. you may like it or not, but it is a huge problem!

if it was not so important, you would not be giving us your comments over and over again.

rita, if the baby is brain dead, yes, he can be aborted. but if he is tretarted, i know it is very hard and so on, but he shoul dnot be aborted, nbut it is questionable i guess.

if you had a restarted brother, would you love him and care for him? i think you would.

[Samuel]

actually... abortion has only been a polarized topic for the gain of politicians. *That is why i initially didn't even want to bother with this topic. *It's importance is completely exaggerated, and giving it any further weight is only going to do them more good, and us considerable harm. *

btw.... the topics that concern me are on the agenda of the united states... just in the opposite direction. *being american means indulging in the fruit stolen from other countries. *What i was trying to get at was...we're responsible for killing millions of people... yet we don't realize it because we are either:

a) stupid
b) completely isolated
c) polar opposites of "book worms"
d) talk out of our asses more pleasantly than constructing a coherent argument based on tangible evidence. *

Why care about abortion then? *Why be so passionate about saving a few cells when we have no qualms about indulging in life's pleasures at the price of taking the life of an ALREADY BORN human?

Like i said... the conservative movement is too self-absorbed. *They speak negatively about abortion knowing they wouldn't ever do it. *When it comes to abortion, they're proponents of life. oo fvcking la la. *However, they don't even bother to address imperialistic type agendas, because they wouldn't stop engaging in them for the sake of anyone. *We've enslaved entire parts of Africa (even today) so that we can get cheaper resources. *And greenpeace and sammiethesaint can only sit here b!tching about the injustice of abortion...

yaaaawwwnnnn....

[sammiedebull]

the world is not a perfect place, sometimes people die, sometimes war must happen, if we took your route, everything would be a disaster and get out of control!

[Samuel]

the world is not a perfect place, sometimes people die, sometimes war must happen, if we took your route, everything would be a disaster and get out of control!


everything is a disaster. *you just don't see that because you're isolated in your cozy little suburb.

[renee]

Not all killing is murder. There instances where we allow people to kill such as self-defense or in the case of capital punishment or war.

Someone told me once that in the hebrew version of the 10 commandments the fifth commandment is "thou shall not murder" rather than "thou shall not kill."

The real question is when does life begin? And there is a lot of disagreement over when this is. The Supreme Court chooses to use the definition of viability. As I mentioned before, Jewish religious law says when the fetus first moves in the womb. Catholics and many other Christians believe at conception. Conversely, some cultures believe it is actually some time after birth (the ancient Hawaiins for example).

I had an abortion when I was younger. I wish I hadn't because I only had it because I was a teenager, unmarried and still in school. If I became pregnant today I would have the kid. However, if I knew the baby would be brain damaged or suffer some other uncurable fate -- I don't know. Maybe I would have another.

[sammiedebull]

na, we own 2 businesses in the middle of detrpit, dont tell me about sitting in the middle of the projects :)

also renee, its not whether its a human or not, its whether it had a real chance of becoming a human.

when you plan a seed, its not a tree yet, but if you give it a chance, it will become on. do i dont know, its a very touch issue, but i just hate the idea of kids bieng aborted and murdered, its not right.

samd, talking about spoiled :) come on :)

I have been to many cities in the USA, some very poor and others very rich, so i have seen the ones on top and the ones on the very bottom.

I think most people from the Middle East who come to usa start at the very bottom, with time and effort, they make it to middle class, i think its you who has not seen suffering and the real struggle.

you even said in your previous post that you are depressed becaus eyour girlfriend and mom and school, etc. now im sure there are bigger problems in the world than you sill small stupid and personal problems.

[wackyiraqi]

Does anyone know that when an abortion doctor aborts the baby, they sell the parts here is a list of what a company pays for parts.

This is really disgusting that a doctor who you pay to abort your baby turns around and sells your baby for parts! Wether you are for or against abortion this fact alone is disturbing. And if you guys want to find more companys that buy baby parts just do a simple Google search.

Opening * Lines
A Division of Consultants & Diagnostic Pathology, Inc.

P.O. Box 508, * West Frankfort, IL *62896
Phone: 800-490-9980 * * * * * * * * * * * *Fax: 618-937-1525


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Fee for Services Schedule * *> greater than * *< same or less than

Unprocessed Specimen (> 8 weeks) $ 70
Unprocessed Specimen (< 8 weeks) $ 50
Livers (< 8 weeks) 30% discount if significantly fragmented $150
Livers (> 8 weeks) 30% discount if significantly fragmented $125
Spleens (< 8 weeks) $ 75
Spleens (> 8 weeks) $ 50
Pancreas (< 8 weeks) $100
Pancreas (> 8 weeks) $ 75
Thymus (< 8 weeks) $100
Thymus (> 8 weeks) $ 75
Intestines & Mesentery $ 50
Mesentery (< 8 weeks) $125
Mesentery (> 8 weeks) $100
Kidney-with/without adrenal (< 8 weeks) $125
Kidney-with/without adrenal (> 8 weeks) $100
Limbs (at least 2) * * * $150
Brain (< 8 weeks) 30% discount if significantly fragmented $999
Brain (> 8 weeks) 30% discount if significantly fragmented $150
Pituitary Gland (> 8 weeks) $300
Bone Marrow (< 8 weeks) $350
Bone Marrow (> 8 weeks) $250
Ears (< 8 weeks) $ 75
Ears (> 8 weeks) $ 50
Eyes (< 8 weeks) 40% discount for single eye $ 75
Eyes (> 8 weeks) 40% discount for single eye $ 50
Skin (> 12 weeks) $100
Lungs & Heart Block $150
Intact Embryonic Cadaver (< 8 weeks) $400
Intact Embryonic Cadaver (> 8 weeks) $600
Intact Calvarium $125
Intact Trunk (with/without limbs) $500
Gonads $550
Cord Blood (Snap Frozen LN2) $125
Spinal Column $150
Spinal Cord $325

[sammiedebull]

thats horrible :(

[Samuel]

Not all killing is murder. There instances where we allow people to kill such as self-defense or in the case of capital punishment or war.

Someone told me once that in the hebrew version of the 10 commandments the fifth commandment is "thou shall not murder" rather than "thou shall not kill."

The real question is when does life begin? And there is a lot of disagreement over when this is. The Supreme Court chooses to use the definition of viability. As I mentioned before, Jewish religious law says when the fetus first moves in the womb. Catholics and many other Christians believe at conception. Conversely, some cultures believe it is actually some time after birth (the ancient Hawaiins for example).

I had an abortion when I was younger. I wish I hadn't because I only had it because I was a teenager, unmarried and still in school. If I became pregnant today I would have the kid. However, if I knew the baby would be brain damaged or suffer some other uncurable fate -- I don't know. Maybe I would have another.


you seem to have a lot of jewish friends (duh, you live in la)....


...but here's the thing... we don't care about what they believe. * :applause: *:angel:

[renee]

Not all killing is murder. There instances where we allow people to kill such as self-defense or in the case of capital punishment or war.

Someone told me once that in the hebrew version of the 10 commandments the fifth commandment is "thou shall not murder" rather than "thou shall not kill."

The real question is when does life begin? And there is a lot of disagreement over when this is. The Supreme Court chooses to use the definition of viability. As I mentioned before, Jewish religious law says when the fetus first moves in the womb. Catholics and many other Christians believe at conception. Conversely, some cultures believe it is actually some time after birth (the ancient Hawaiins for example).

I had an abortion when I was younger. I wish I hadn't because I only had it because I was a teenager, unmarried and still in school. If I became pregnant today I would have the kid. However, if I knew the baby would be brain damaged or suffer some other uncurable fate -- I don't know. Maybe I would have another.


you seem to have a lot of jewish friends (duh, you live in la)....


...but here's the thing... we don't care about what they believe. * :applause: *:angel:

You may not care what they believe, but this is not a Theocracy but a democracy. The point being that there are many "BELIEFS" and very few facts. You may believe that life begins at conception but it's not fact, it's belief -- faith. Sammie the Bull believes that "its not whether its a human or not, its whether it had a real chance of becoming a human." I wonder if he includes sperm in that definition? In that case, he would have committed murder multiple times a day as his sperm died in his towel.

I believe in the viability argument. Don't impose your religious beliefs on me.

[sammiedebull]

FUNNY stuff. thats not the basis of my aguement, if the sperm and egg have connected to form a "bieng", this is where i think it starts.

also i knew you would come up with this arguement, its not really an arguement because with no egg, the sperm cannot become a human bieng :)







H E L L O!!!





you are taking it to much out of context, lets make it more simple for you renee.

if man + woman have sex, and egg + sperm connect to form human bieng and woman goes to have abortion = very wrong!

its pretty simple. some people erect while in a dream/sleep, does this mean they just killed a baby?

N O P E!

tha arguement you are making again is baseless.

[UmiSayz]

I believe in 4 stages of life. One of them is a fetus. So I dont believe in abortion.

[Samuel]

Not all killing is murder. There instances where we allow people to kill such as self-defense or in the case of capital punishment or war.

Someone told me once that in the hebrew version of the 10 commandments the fifth commandment is "thou shall not murder" rather than "thou shall not kill."

The real question is when does life begin? And there is a lot of disagreement over when this is. The Supreme Court chooses to use the definition of viability. As I mentioned before, Jewish religious law says when the fetus first moves in the womb. Catholics and many other Christians believe at conception. Conversely, some cultures believe it is actually some time after birth (the ancient Hawaiins for example).

I had an abortion when I was younger. I wish I hadn't because I only had it because I was a teenager, unmarried and still in school. If I became pregnant today I would have the kid. However, if I knew the baby would be brain damaged or suffer some other uncurable fate -- I don't know. Maybe I would have another.


you seem to have a lot of jewish friends (duh, you live in la)....


...but here's the thing... we don't care about what they believe. * :applause: *:angel:

You may not care what they believe, but this is not a Theocracy but a democracy. The point being that there are many "BELIEFS" and very few facts. You may believe that life begins at conception but it's not fact, it's belief -- faith. Sammie the Bull believes that "its not whether its a human or not, its whether it had a real chance of becoming a human." I wonder if he includes sperm in that definition? In that case, he would have committed murder multiple times a day as his sperm died in his towel.

I believe in the viability argument. Don't impose your religious beliefs on me.

1) *Where did i impose my religious beliefs on you? *You're the one siting Jewish law in every post. *At least the bible-thumpers are disguising their true motives. *All of a sudden we have the official Jewish spokesperson here explaining what the jews think, as if that provides some sort justification on how to pass laws. *

2) Since this is a privacy issue then... the infringement of rights are not up for any majority vote. *THat's the purpose of the Constitution, yea? *The extended bill of rights? *To protect our rights from governmental institutions. *They aren't negotiable. *Unless there is a compelling reason to restrain a certain right for a temporary time, using a necessary means... our rights don't get trumped by "majority" vote. * Understood? * :roll: * A ban on abortion amendment is about as feasible as... well... as restructuring our economic system in accordance to a socialistic model. *

3) i never stated my opinion on this matter. *Personally... i'm not supportive of abortion, but then again... i didn't argue my case. *I argue what i feel is constitutional, not how my priest wants me to feel.

[Samuel]

I believe in 4 stages of life. One of them is a fetus. So I dont believe in abortion.

what are the other three? * :eh:

[UmiSayz]

after birth, death and judgement.

[sammiedebull]

of couse its great to follow the constitution, i agree with you 100% on that.

the consitutions bans murder right? than it should also ban abortion :) because that is also murder.

[wackyiraqi]

Subjects such as religion, abortion, aliens....etc. are always going to have two sides maybe more, people will always have different opinions about each subject. But it is good that everyone shares what they know.

SamD I enjoy reading your posts because you have some valid points and questions that are worth asking. And I think its great that people ask questions and are not afraid and people respond without being afraid. But Sam why are most of your replies an insult to others? I mean you make very good points and ask great questions, but why do you insult the members who respond in one way or another? Have you thought that maybe most of the members are very intelligent, but they have a hard time expressing that in a web forum? Really I am not trying to insult you or anything I respect your opinions but really enough with the insults of the board members, and that is why I don't respond to most of these types of posts because I hate to be disrespected because of the way I say or type something!

[Samuel]

@wacky..

you make a valid point. *but she accused me of something i wasn't doing. *I'm not pro-choice by any means. *I would never abort my own kid. *I just think that you can't force-feed your beliefs onto other people. *Or even use certain people's unsubstantiated beliefs as proof to your argument. *Beliefs <> *Truth. *

edit: i fixed it to make it less rude.

@ sammie
constitution protects life. *it's up to you to prove that a fetus is alive in the first place. *Maybe it can happen. *In times past, a black man only counted as 3/5 of a regular person. *Times change.

[sammiedebull]

I think wacky makes a very valid point :) its not that we dont respect his opinion, its that he attacks anyone with a bunch of big words which he thinks makes him look very smart. you may be smart, and im sure you are, but most people look over that and look at you as a snob because of the way you respond.

also yes, i guess its all about what is a bieng and what is not, but a lot of people who are for it in this post dont care about the pphase, they would support abortion even at 6 months.

somtimes the response is more important than the attack :)

[Samuel]

I think wacky makes a very valid point :) its not that we dont respect his opinion, its that he attacks anyone with a bunch of big words which he thinks makes him look very smart. you may be smart, and im sure you are, but most people look over that and look at you as a snob because of the way you respond.

also yes, i guess its all about what is a bieng and what is not, but a lot of people who are for it in this post dont care about the pphase, they would support abortion even at 6 months.

somtimes the response is more important than the attack :)

haha. *the criticisms are humbling.

anyway... abortion isn't a topic worth debating anymore. *i think there should be an auto-lock feature. *Everytime the word "abortion" appears, it becomes censored and the topic becomes locked. * :D

[sammiedebull]

haha, what is worth talking about ;)

lets talk technology which is my field, the legal crap is boring :)

[GreenEyeZchal705]

SamD, My views on capital punishment are not cut and dry. *I feel that there are people in this society who aren't worth the time and money it takes to keep them on death row or in the prison system for 30-40 years when they commit disgusting acts such as murder, rape, etc. *Abortion on the other hand is the taking of an innocent life. You continually describe the baby as a bunch of cells when in fact we as humans are the exact same thing. *We were created when two cells connected and are made up of a million cells....whats the difference? *When I state my views/opinions on this site as well as in every day life i'm not naive enough to believe that someone is going to say well hey Greenie said it so we must believe in it. *I merely stated my opinions which I will continue to do. This argument over privacy is a bit too dramatic for me because it has nothing to do with this issue. *There should be a limit to what we can do to others without the interference of others such as the govt. and abortion is beyond that limit in my eyes. The easiest way to get out of making a valid point is to attack a person on a personal level which you seem to continuously do. Let your words speak for themselves...no need to insult anyone. Renee although I dont agree with your decision to abort i am impressed with your honesty.

[wackyiraqi]

@wacky.. *

edit: i fixed it to make it less rude.


To make what less rude? Your response to me? * :lol:

[Samuel]

[quote=samd @ Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:49 pm]@wacky.. *

edit: i fixed it to make it less rude.


To make what less rude? Your response to me? * :lol:

no no... lol... i agree with you.... *i meant my response to renee.... *:angel:

[wackyiraqi]

haha... OK :alright:

[Rita]

rita, if the baby is brain dead, yes, he can be aborted. but if he is tretarted, i know it is very hard and so on, but he shoul dnot be aborted, nbut it is questionable i guess.

if you had a restarted brother, would you love him and care for him? i think you would.

Restarted? LOL

Anyways, I don't like to use the word retarded. The correct word is handicap. Depending on the handicap and how it would create a hard life for my child or my little brother, than yes. I have a cousin who is handicapped and nothing hurts me more than to see her the way she is and how hard it is for my aunt to take care of her. I honestly don't think I could do it. Seeing what my aunt has been through and the pain that I see my cousin in daily, I would never want to put my child through that. The older the child gets, the harder it will be for them and the older you get... who are you going to trust to take care of them?

[Samuel]

SamD, My views on capital punishment are not cut and dry. *I feel that there are people in this society who aren't worth the time and money it takes to keep them on death row or in the prison system for 30-40 years when they commit disgusting acts such as murder, rape, etc. *Abortion on the other hand is the taking of an innocent life. You continually describe the baby as a bunch of cells when in fact we as humans are the exact same thing. *We were created when two cells connected and are made up of a million cells....whats the difference? *When I state my views/opinions on this site as well as in every day life i'm not naive enough to believe that someone is going to say well hey Greenie said it so we must believe in it. *I merely stated my opinions which I will continue to do. This argument over privacy is a bit too dramatic for me because it has nothing to do with this issue. *There should be a limit to what we can do to others without the interference of others such as the govt. and abortion is beyond that limit in my eyes. The easiest way to get out of making a valid point is to attack a person on a personal level which you seem to continuously do. Let your words speak for themselves...no need to insult anyone. Renee although I dont agree with your decision to abort i am impressed with your honesty.

i like this response...but again...the debate regarding abortion is counterproductive. *Unless there is some definitive way to define life (human...not just anything)... then well... there's no telling what is "moral" and what isn't. *However, if it is determined that a fetus is definitely considered to be life...then you could use the constitution to protect it from being harmed. *

Now with respect to privacy. *You may not think it's important... but like i said before. *Roe vs. wade was decided based on privacy. *i would get into it...but i don't think that it matters to you.. You just don't like abortion. *There's really nothing i can say or do to change your mind. *

There's no need to set up hypothetical situations asking, "what if she got raped..." or "what if the fetus has severe mutations.." *

And there's no need for you to list procedures you found on your christian-coalition websites.

The debate has hit a wall.. *You're hoping that i embrace your idea that a fetus is alive, and i'm hoping you take society, politics, and the causal effects *of such a decision into account... both futile purposes. *

But if you ever get pregnant...contribute to your cause and don't abort. *As for the rest of us...we'll do as we please. *Isnt that a beautiful concept? * I'm sure God will take care of things, even! *Or are you assuming he's incapable of that?

[sammiedebull]

no one is trying to change anyone, we are just trying to show you that you are wrong ;) as usual ;)

[Samuel]

no one is trying to change anyone, we are just trying to show you that you are wrong ;) as usual ;)


i could agree with just about everyone that i go out of line sometimes. *I apologize to those that i've insulted in the past. *In this thread....greenie, renee, rita, etc... *But you... well i don't know what to say to you. *You enjoy provoking me. *I wish this message board had an ignore feature so i wouldn't have to bother reading your posts. *but from now on...i'll just skip them.

[renee]

no one is trying to change anyone, we are just trying to show you that you are wrong ;) as usual ;)


i could agree with just about everyone that i go out of line sometimes. *I apologize to those that i've insulted in the past. *In this thread....greenie, renee, rita, etc... *But you... well i don't know what to say to you. *You enjoy provoking me. *I wish this message board had an ignore feature so i wouldn't have to bother reading your posts. *but from now on...i'll just skip them.

don't take it so personally. we're chaldean women, we like to argue.

[Rita]

no one is trying to change anyone, we are just trying to show you that you are wrong ;) as usual ;)


i could agree with just about everyone that i go out of line sometimes. *I apologize to those that i've insulted in the past. *In this thread....greenie, renee, rita, etc... *But you... well i don't know what to say to you. *You enjoy provoking me. *I wish this message board had an ignore feature so i wouldn't have to bother reading your posts. *but from now on...i'll just skip them.

I thought you liked me Biyaaatch! LOL *:roll:

[sammiedebull]

thats funny samd :)

[Samuel]

no one is trying to change anyone, we are just trying to show you that you are wrong ;) as usual ;)


i could agree with just about everyone that i go out of line sometimes. *I apologize to those that i've insulted in the past. *In this thread....greenie, renee, rita, etc... *But you... well i don't know what to say to you. *You enjoy provoking me. *I wish this message board had an ignore feature so i wouldn't have to bother reading your posts. *but from now on...i'll just skip them.

I thought you liked me Biyaaatch! LOL *:roll:

i do. *that's why i'm apologizing for being rude (in the past). *

:angel:

[Emily]

i havent read anyones comments i do not believe in abortion, unless it is for a good reason.If the girl was raped or she is younger than 17 then i say aye for abortion if those reasons do not apply, she played now they gotta pay. Thats all i have to say about that.

[renee]

i havent read anyones comments i do not believe in abortion, unless it is for a good reason.If the girl was raped or she is younger than 17 then i say aye for abortion if those reasons do not apply, she played now they gotta pay. Thats all i have to say about that.

Sounds like a compassionate plan.

[Emily]

^^^whats that suppose to mean sassy?

[sammiedebull]

hehe.

[Rita]

A picture began circulating in November. It should be "The Picture of the
Year,"
or perhaps, "Picture of the Decade." It won't be. *In fact, unless
you obtained a *copy of the US paper which published it, you probably
would never have seen it.

The picture is that of a 21-week-old unborn baby named Samuel Alexander
Armas,
who is being operated on by surgeon named Joseph Bruner.

The baby was diagnosed with spina bifida and would not survive if
removed from his mother's womb. Little Samuel's mother, Julie Armas, is
an obstetrics nurse in Atlanta. *She knew of Dr. Bruner's remarkable
surgical procedure. Practicing at Vanderbilt University Medical Center
in *Nashville, * he performs these special operations while the baby is
still in the womb.

During the procedure, the doctor removes the uterus via C-section and
makes *a small incision to operate on the *baby. *As Dr. Bruner
completed the surgery on Samuel, the little guy reached his tiny, but
fully developed hand through the incision and firmly grasped the surgeon's
finger. *Dr. Bruner was reported as saying that when his finger was
grasped, it was the most emotional moment of his life, and that for an
instant during
the procedure he was just frozen, totally immobile.

The photograph captures this amazing event with perfect clarity. *The
editors titled the picture, "Hand of Hope." The text explaining the
picture begins, "The tiny hand of 21-week-old fetus Samuel Alexander Armas
emerges from the mother's uterus to grasp the finger of Dr. Joseph Bruner
as if thanking the doctor for the gift of life." *Little Samuel's
mother said they "wept for days" when they saw the picture. *She said,
"The photo reminds us pregnancy isn't about disability or an illness, it's
about a little person."

Samuel was born in perfect health, the operation 100 percent successful.

Now see the actual picture, and it is awesome...incredible....and hey,
pass *it on. *The *world needs to see this one!

P.S. Don't tell me God isn't awesome!!!!!

[SamIAM™]

more about the above photo:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-handofhope3.htm

[dlchaldo79]

abortion should be optional because when a 16 year old girl has that child,chances r she is gonna ruin her life,the babies life,and maybe even the dumb ass fathers life because they werent prepared for a child.why shouldent a women have the option of abortion if its still at an early stage.even though the bible says no it is wrong to have an abortion.women back in the day were married by the time they were 14 and werent such hookers.times have change.sad we have to change with them.

[sammiedebull]

dont use that as an excuse, she wshould not kill the baby because of her mistakes, she could always give itt up for adoption!

[renee]

dont use that as an excuse, she wshould not kill the baby because of her mistakes, she could always give itt up for adoption!

easy for u to say. :roll:

[Emily]

when you are pregnant for 9 months women have a tendacy to become attached, knowing their baby is inside growing, knowing they have created life its hard to just give your baby up for adoption.

[GreenEyeZchal705]

That has to be the most touching photo ive ever seen and people want to believe that whats growing inside isnt human life until birth.

[sammiedebull]

just because men dont have kids, they can still understand the process. dont use that as an excuse renee. also we do help in the process, you just need to carry for 9 months.

[Emily]

i agree with renee that picture is really precious

[renee]

That has to be the most touching photo ive ever seen and people want to believe that whats growing inside isnt human life until birth.

I agree. Science will continue to find ways to push back the point of viability.

[renee]

you just need to carry for 9 months.

JUST? JUST CARRY IT FOR 9 MONTHS!!!

would you want your 15 year old sister to "JUST" carry a baby for 9 months? Watch her social circle dry up? Be ostracized by jerks like you? Go through a birth?

I'll agree with you "sammiedebull $hit" when you force a softball up your rectum.

[sammiedebull]

If she made such a mistake, than yes, she should learn from it and not think that she can do it again and simple have an abortion.

you always go for the easy way oout, no matter if its wrong or not, thats the differentce between the renees on the site!!! you want the easy and simple way, no matter who you hurt, no matter if its morally wrong, no matter what, thats selfish and not right!

[Samuel]

this debate has run dry.... it's contributor's message -- abortive. *For the love of God, take your two cents (if that), and throw them down a well. *Maybe some day all of your wishes will come true.

[sammiedebull]

go fly a kite :) just because you have nothing useful to say or cant communicate well with others dont blame everyone else!

[renee]

This post is getting so old.