Bush: Syrian Withdrawal a 'Half Measure'

[Sal Izo]

How does everyone feel about this latest issue in regards to President George Bush and his stance on Syria? *I will post the article which gives an idea about what's going on for those who may not have heard or seen what the story or fuss was over. *Do you agree, disagree, or?

Bush: Syrian Withdrawal a 'Half Measure'

WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites) said Wednesday that Syria's withdrawal plans in Lebanon are just a "a half measure" and that Syrian intelligence services exercise "heavy-handed" influence in Lebanon's government.

Bush reiterated his call on Syria to remove all of its soldiers and intelligence forces from Lebanon and said the United States was consulting with allies about possible steps if Damascus refuses.

"One thing a lot of people don't understand is Syrian influence is heavy-handed through the involvement of intelligence services throughout the government," the president said in a brief question-and-answer session in the Oval Office. "And they must remove both for the election to be free."

Parliamentary elections are scheduled for May.

Bush spoke during a meeting with Romanian President Traian Basescu, who is on a three-day visit to the United States.

"The Syrians must remove their troops as well as their intelligence services," Bush said, calling on Syrian President Bashar Assad to comply with U.N. demands for a complete withdrawal.

Bush said Assad's promise to pull back to the Bekaa Valley was not enough.

"That is a half measure," Bush said. "It is a measure but it's a half measure."

Bush said he would work with allies to pressure Syria: "The world is speaking now. That's what President Assad must understand. That's not just the Western world that speaks."

Bush said he was impressed by Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah's admonition to Assad to abide by U.N. demands.

Bush also expressed new concerns about Iran (news - web sites)'s suspected nuclear ambitions.

"I think it's very important for the United States to continue to work with our friends and allies which believe that the Iranians want a nuclear weapon and which know that Iran possessing a nuclear weapon would be very destabilizing," the president said.

He said that on his recent trip to Europe, he found common ground with many allies who are worried about Iran's intentions.

"One reason there needs to be worry about Iran is that it is a non-transparent society. There's no openness," Bush said.

"And so I think it's very wise for the free world to be concerned about Iranian weapons — Iranians' desire to develop a weapon — and it's very easy for them to solve the problem, and that is to not only to give assurances about any nuclear weapons program, but to allow for IAEA inspection processes in a transparent way."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20050309/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_syria

[SamIAM™]

I agree with him, syria has no business in staying there. *They're supporters of Hizbollah (the biggest terrorist), they need to get they're asses out of there.

[renee]

It's bull$hit! Bush is right. Syria's occupation of Lebanon is wrong. Why do u think Assad hasn't been that critical of the US? BECAUSE HE (and his father) DID WORSE. They could easily just leave and maintain their security by placing their troops on their side of the border.

[sammiedebull]

its a bit more complicated than that renee.

[UmiSayz]

I think Syria should stay there. They didn't take over the country. They're protecting Lebanon from the Israelis.

[sammiedebull]

umi, i think they should leave or keep minimal forces, but i do also agree that the aggresion from the neighbors to the south lead to this. also the neighbor to the south likes to cause problems in lebanon when it starts to see progress in lebanon from an economical point of view.

Last year was the biggest ever year of tourism in lebanon and this year will prob be the worst ever.

i am no fan of syria but i do think that they do deserver some credit for helping lebanon stabalize.

syria also has its interest, they have some sanctions on it, so im sure that they bring in goods through lebanon, also there are 1 million syrian works in lebanonwho enter lebanon every day.

syria also uses lebanonin a way to keep pressure on the neighbor in the south, they do this my keep the resistance/militia (what ever you want to call them) movement in the south which keeps israel on their heels.

Israel occupies syrian land and lebanese land still (for lebanon its shabaa farms) and (syria its the bekka valley). so if syris does pull out, than israel will than move out of the shabaa farms which means it will oficially be 100% out of lebanon. Remind you that shabaa farms is quite small, around 5 miles x 5 miles and bekka is around 40 miles x 40 miles.

that said, once israel pulls out of shabaa farms (its farm land and a really nice military strategic point, its a huge hill over looking israel basically) than they will put pressure on lebanon through the EU, USA, etc to disband hisballah because they really are a massive threat to israel. they are known to posses some major arms.

A lot of people (most if not all muslims and MANY christians in lebanon) see them as a resistance force to israel. I am not sure if they have ever made any operations outside lebanon/israel, but i do not think so, who knows.

The case that hisballah is bring up is that it wants to protect lebanon for any future aggretion against lebanon. Rememeber that lebanon in 1982 eas attacked because the palestinians that were refugees in lebanon started attacking israel and mr arafat (the thug) started running his operation out of beirut. The israels got sick of it and decided to invade lebanon and basically killed thousands of people who have nothing to do with arafat and the palestinians.

What happened is the Israels agreed that it would be a 1 month mission to kick out arafat and get things under control, the 1 month lasted around 20 years. many people credit the withdrawl of the IDF (Israeli defence force) in 1998 because of the group named hisballah.

I just hope this does not create yet another problem for the world.

I hope that educates everyone more about the situation there.

Its a very big problem, it does not seem like it, but it will get bigger and bigger, such problems could lead to civil war, a flare up between israel and hisballah, american troops entring lebanon, etc.

Lebanon by the way is now around 60% muslim, 36% christain and 4% other such as sunii and druze.

Lebanon by definition is a free country, no dictator, the president is christain, the vis president is shiaa and the prime minister is sunii (herari was the one assistanted/murdered), he was a GREAT man, he was paying bills for 1,000 families per month, they were christain, muslim, druze, etc. He helped build mosques, churces, etc.

Lebanon makes most of its money by tourism and basic trade.

[renee]

I think Syria should stay there. They didn't take over the country. They're protecting Lebanon from the Israelis.

there's no way the US is going to let Isreal invade or occupy Lebanon. It should be set up as the Christian middle eastern country.

[sammiedebull]

you are ignorant to think that way :) The usa would give israel the gren light in a heart beat if it had a good enough reason to do so.

Remmeber kissenger (nixon administration), he gave his blessing on the first invasion :)

[Armenian]

no the USA would not let Israel occupy Lebanon.. Thats propaganda.. I myself wouldn't stand for it.. As for you all approving Syria's occupation of Lebanon.. For Christ's sake.. The 7ezbollah (Iranian backed group) approves of it as well. *As the assassinations continue in Lebanon, as the Lebanese opposition continues to be intimidated by hezbollah, as the lebanese youths continue to be silenced by violence.

[sammiedebull]

yes, and the usa will not let the rebels kill millions of people in sudan, yes the usa did not tell the shias afterthe gulf war to revolt against saddam, hundreads of thusands died. Now USA did not say nothing when israel attacked lebanon the first time, no the usa did nothing in tiyanmamin (im splelling this wrong) squre when teh chinese army killed all the protestors and torchered them after they got the situation under control.

I agree syria should leave, but not the way its happening now. its just creating more tention and pressure, i do not think that syria had anything to do with the killing of hariri because what do they have to gain, nothing really. it was either israel, the christains or someone like alqueda who wants to create civil war in the country.

you say nothing will happen if its a quick and fast pull out, you are wrong, the pull out should happen but must be gradual. I am not disputing the pull out. Israel has launched a multi million dollar ad campaign to get them out, they have also sent diplomats all over also, personally i hate syria, but the way its happening is not the right way.

remmeber lebanon went thru a 20 year occupation with israel, and a 10 year civbil war. Since israel has pulled out, it has been nothing but good things for lebanon, tourism sky rockted, unemployment got much better, people from usa who immgarted invested heavily by building homes, condos, etc.

things could get out of control easy, civil war, palestinian refugees going crazy and attacking israel from the south, than we are all back where we started.

does not make sense. i want syria out as most lebanese do, but the way its happening is not right and causing many problems and im afraid the USA does not have enough troops at the moment to "deal with a situation".

and no, if you dont want syriaout, than you are not a supporter of hizballa, thats bullshit again, its like saying if you dont support the iraq war you are with the terrorist, thats insane and makes no sense at all!

[Armenian]

yes, and the usa will not let the rebels kill millions of people in sudan

Ok, here is where I stop reading your post... What does the USA have to do with rapes and murders in Sudan?!?!?

[Armenian]

either way.. Syria is not going to leave Lebanon.. *I guess a reason to celebrate right?



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http://i.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0503/gallery.lebanon.protests/gallery.04.lebanon.ap.jpg

Lebanon's ex-PM nominated to resume post
Pro-Syria demonstrators rally in Damascus
Wednesday, March 9, 2005 Posted: 5:36 PM EST (2236 GMT)

BEIRUT, Lebanon -- Lebanon's pro-Syria parliamentary majority has nominated former Prime Minister Omar Karami -- who resigned nine days ago in the face of anti-Syria demonstrations -- to resume his post.

The decision was announced Wednesday after consultations between with President Emile Lahoud and lawmakers.

Lahoud is expected to make the official appointment Thursday, political sources said.

Karami's resigned on February 28 following huge mass demonstrations in Beirut against his government. Those protests prompted a huge rally Tuesday in support of Syria presence in Lebanon. (Full story)

Meanwhile, demonstrations shifted Wednesday to the Syrian capital, Damascus, in support of President Bashar Assad, whose government is coming under international pressure to stop interfering in Lebanon's affairs.

Tens of thousands of people took to the streets of the city, singing national songs and proclaiming their loyalty to Assad, The Associated Press reported.

"Nobody can get Syria out from Lebanon's heart and mind," a banner read. "No for antagonist pressures against Syria," read another.

The protest follows Tuesday's mass pro-Syrian rally in Beirut, organized by the Iranian-backed Shiite Muslim group Hezbollah.

That demonstration, in turn, came after a series of anti-Syrian protests in Beirut that since the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri on February 14.

Many Lebanese have blamed his killing on Syria and Lebanon's pro Damascus government. Both have denied responsibility.

Wednesday's nomination of Karami comes as Syrian troops began the first phase of a pullback from Lebanese positions.

Late Wednesday Syrian soldiers evacuated positions in the north and center of the country, The Associated Press reports.

Long convoys of Syrian trucks and buses headed east on mountain roads and Syrian soldiers evacuated most of their positions in the northern port of Tripoli, witnesses reported.

In some cases, Lebanese soldiers quickly took over the Syrian bases. In north Lebanon's Batroun district, local residents cheered and waved Lebanese flags after the Syrians departed.

The pullback was announced after the Syrian and Lebanese presidents agreed to troop redeployment according to the 1989 Taif Accord, not U.N. Resolution 1559.

The Taif agreement calls for a pullback to the Bekaa Valley and later, after more discussions, into Syria. Resolution 1559 calls for the complete and immediate withdrawal of Syrian troops.

Also on Wednesday, former U.S. Secretary of State Madeline Albright added her voice to calls for Syria to stop interferring in Lebanese affairs.

"We want them to go because it's important for Lebanon to be an independent country and not a client state of Syria," Albright told CNN. She made her comments in Madrid, where she is attending a summit on global terrorirsm.

The 1989 accord ended Lebanon's 15-year civil war -- in which various factions and even Western armies were involved, finally leaving Syrian troops in the country to help stabilize it. About 14,000 Syrian forces remain after some withdrawals over the years.

By Wednesday morning, a number of Syrian positions in central and northern Lebanon stood empty after late-night withdrawals, AP reported.

Outside Batroun, about 50 kilometers (30 miles) north of Beirut, Syrian soldiers had evacuated four posts, one of which was then taken over by the Lebanese army, witnesses said.

[renee]

Everyone seems to forget that it was muslims (funded by syria and saudi arabia) who overthrew Chamoun in 1958. Syria has had territorial designs on Lebanon for-like-ever. *This had nothing to do with protecting their borders. It had to do with pan-islamism. The American marines that President Eisenhower sent should have taken care of the problem there and then.

[sammiedebull]

renee the past is the past, and why did teh americans take the land of the insians, the israels the palestinians, etc. deal with the present situations and what led to them. things happen like wars and so on, our job as americans is not to provoke problems but to fix them before they happen in a responsable way.

[sammiedebull]

well, well, well :

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=7866660&src=rss/topNews

U.S. Ready to Accept Hizbollah, New York Times Says

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a major foreign policy shift, the Bush administration is ready to accept long-time pariah and militant group Hizbollah as a player in mainstream politics in Lebanon, The New York Times reported on Thursday.
The story was swiftly disputed by the Bush administration, which said its policy was unchanged.

Seen for decades by the United States as a terrorist group, Hizbollah this week sponsored one of the biggest pro-Syrian demonstrations ever seen in Lebanon.

U.S., European and United Nations officials told The New York Times the United States reluctantly recognized that besides having a militia and sponsoring attacks on Israelis, Hizbollah was a huge political force in Lebanon that could block Western efforts to get Syria to withdraw its troops.

"There is a realization by France and the United States that if you tackle Hizbollah now, you array the Shiites against you. With elections coming in Lebanon, you don't want the entire Shiite community against you," one diplomat told the paper.

A senior Bush administration official disputed the story, saying: "Our view on Hizbollah has not changed. It's a terrorist group."

"Obviously we'd like to see them disarmed as U.N. Security Council Resolution 1559 requires. Once disarmed they could undertake any political role in Lebanon that they can win democratically at the polls. This doesn't constitute any change in the U.S. position," the official said.

During last month's meeting with European Union leaders in Brussels, President Bush said it is not in the interest of the United States or Europe for Iran to fund "terrorist organizations like Hizbollah, which has the desire to stop the Middle East peace process from going forward."

The Times said Hizbollah had also become a lower priority in U.N. negotiations to demand the disarmament of Hizbollah, adding that the United States agreed with France that the militant group was too important a force to antagonize.

One official told the Times the Bush administration had reluctantly decided to take this new approach. "Hizbollah has American blood on its hands," said the official, referring to events such as the truck bombing that killed more than 200 Marines in Beirut in 1983.

"The administration has an absolute aversion to admitting that Hizbollah has a role to play in Lebanon, but that is the path we're going down."

Like the Irish Republican Army, Hizbollah has military and political wings and France has argued the group ought to be encouraged to focus more on politics.

[Armenian]

This just goes to show that there is NO hope for change in the middle east. *I say we find an alternative to oil, stay as far as possible from the M.E. (kind of like I did), and let them eat sand and kill eachother like they have for centuries.

[sammiedebull]

not the solution! solution is to work hard an find a way to make peace, it can happen, no one ever thought the russian empire could fall, it did, but took us a long time and we never picked up a gun against russia.

This is a 20-30 year problem, even longer.

dont run away from the problem, deal with it and find a way to make everyone happy.

I do agree that the oil problem is a big one and i do highly support other methods of energy.

[renee]

not the solution! solution is to work hard an find a way to make peace, it can happen, no one ever thought the russian empire could fall, it did, but took us a long time and we never picked up a gun against russia.

This is a 20-30 year problem, even longer.

dont run away from the problem, deal with it and find a way to make everyone happy.

I do agree that the oil problem is a big one and i do highly support other methods of energy.

or just remember that a thermo-nuclear bomb would not destroy the oil.

[sammiedebull]

yes, but would leave so much radiation that no one could get anywhere near it to get the oil.

H E L L O :)

[Armenian]

not the solution! solution is to work hard an find a way to make peace,

that would be making peace.. Well making peace then going our separate ways. *Let them take care of their own problems as we here in America have problems of our own.

This is a 20-30 year problem
Try 2000+ years dating back to biblical times.. I wish it was just a "20-30" year problem..

[Armenian]

I do agree that the oil problem is a big one and i do highly support other methods of energy.

everyone has to admit that we are all guilty when it comes to oil demand.. From the shoes on our feet to the roads we drive on, oil is needed in most all products. *The USA has the highest product demand in the world.. therefore we need more resources.. This happens to include oil.

[Armenian]

Now this is scary.. *Im sorry.. I will protest if the US associates with the likes of Hezbollah..


http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/archives/hezbollah%20salute.jpg
http://www.chretiens-et-juifs.org/cje_files/D7/cje_images/image001_1637.jpg

[sammiedebull]

yep, look very organized.

also, if there was no hizballah, would israel have left lebanon? remind you, israel was NOT in lebanon because of hizballah but because of the palestinaians they kicked out of their land :)

So they kick out the palestinians, they flee to lebanon, they run their operations from lebanon, the attack israel from lebanon, lebanon is attacked just because they people (palestinians) they kicked out from their land were fighting back. than you ask, couldn't the lebanese have done something about this attacking back? no, because they were in their own civil war in which by the way israel supported the christains which helped in a slaughter in some refugee camps in south lebanon. mr sharon was found guilty (by his own government) of helping cause this in which 2000+ women, children and men were killed.

you know lebanon by law does not allow any palestinians to own land? the reason for it is because they dont want them to settle there, they want them to go back to their homeland.

also i am no fan of the palestinians nor israel, i wish there could be a solution, i think there will be a temp. solution, but in the long run, its unlikely there will be any peace. about the rest of teh middle east, yes there can be peace, what you are saying is that its not possible, i am telling you it is possible. the reason the russians failed and collapsed was because we made it our number one priority, it was either them or us. Remind you the russians did not want to nuke us or kill us, they wanted to convert us, that was the idea of the russians, they wanted to spread communism and thats why they invaded afganistan and others.

I think that every country can be made democratic, look at iran in the late 70's, they overthrew him there because the usa was not paying attention, they had a democracy previous to that, iraq will prevail, it took us hundreads of years here to make a democracy and we still have disagreements. Everyone wants it now, it cant happen "now", it will takle time, the cold war lasted 30 years and you all want pease and a democracy in less than 2 years :)

second, hizballa never attacked any usa targets, what makes such a group different than the freedom fighters who kicked out the russians from afganistan? what makes them different from other groups that the usa supports.

I think that if the usa supports them, whether it be right or wrong, people will go behind them, thats the irony here, if they dont support them but support another group with the same vcause, theya re not looked at the same.

No i think any group that attacks another country with terrorism should be knocked down and disarmed/killed or what ever, period!

the main question for you since you feel deeply about this is :

1) do you think Israel would have left if it were to to this militant/terrorist group?

2) would you think Israel would have annexed that part of lebanon?

3) If someone attacked you in your backyard would you fight to the death to protect your land and family? wold your neighbors think that you are a terrorist if they did not agree with you?

I am from lebanon and i am just happy its liberated, would i prefer the lebanese army to fight for the land take by israel? heck yes. but unfortunetly there is no army, if the army sees a normal criminal they run.

They held a protests in which 2 million people attended, do you think the lebanese people are greatful?

Lebanon is not like other middle eastern countries where you are put down and have to shut up, you can to some extent pretty much do what ever you want. Remember there is a christain president, a sunii prime minister and a shia vp.

I think lebanon has been screwed throughout the years.

1) french involvement, anything the french touch gets f**** up!

2) civil war.

3) country went bankrupt in the early 80's.

4) Israel invades.

5) a lot if traders (paid for by the neighbor to the south).

6) Now this problem.

I just hope everything will be ok because it really is a great country, has excellent potential for tourism and commerce.

and that is your history lesson for today :)

class dismissed :)

[Armenian]

also i am no fan of the palestinians nor israel


Me either.. I still think the (Iranian backed) Hezbollah is some scary shit though.

[Armenian]

1) french involvement, anything the french touch gets f**** up!

2) civil war.

3) country went bankrupt in the early 80's.

4) Israel invades.

5) a lot if traders (paid for by the neighbor to the south).

6) Now this problem.

You forgot to add that Syria has used Lebanon as a giant parking lot for the past two decades. *

Syria and Iran has its only interests in Lebanon.. It's not that they "love the Lebanese soooo much".

I simply would like the Lebanese to stand on their own two feet is all.. To make their own laws, to have their own freedom.. *Lebanon is the most unique country in the M.E.. I stand with the peaceful opposition that protested that Syria leave.

[sammiedebull]

Syria SHOULD leave, but not like this. also note that syria did help stop the civil war.

You are right, syria wants others to cause problems, they are a huge failure. You have to understand the tentions in lebanon between the christains and the muslims, its not as easy as you think. Syria get out, hey everyone go vote, everyone live happily ever after.

If it makes you feel happy this way, if they did have a vote, the whole hizballah leadership would be elected as president, vise president, prime minister, etc.

Understand the situation, the current constitution requires that there MUST be a christian president, there MUST be a prime minister who is SUNII, there MUST be a SHIA VP. The reason they do this is to keep everyone happy.

It's not just hey, you get out, you get out, you get out and everyone live happily ever after.

about iran, what a disaster situation that is, i think they did use to use lebanon as a ground to deter israel via hisballah, but not anymore really as they now have missles that can easily reach israel.

Also note that iran is 98% shia muslims, maybe a bit less and lebanon is around 55% shia. also note that suniis (sunni triangle in iraq, pakistan, saudi and others which are mostly sunii dominated) hate shias, they think they are traders. This is of course a generalization and not all of them, but most of them do think this way.

Lesson plan number 2 completed :)