Mar Delly Denounces U.S. Evangelicals

[Kikhwa]

From Zinda Magazine
http://www.zindamagazine.com/ThisWeek/5.21.05/index_sat.php


http://www.zindamagazine.com/ThisWeek/5.21.05/pix/delly.jpg


Courtesy of Reuters
20 May 2005

(ZNDA: Berlin) *His Beatitude Mar Emmanuel II Delly, Patriarch of the Chaldean Catholic Church, on Thursday denounced American evangelical missionaries working in Iraq for what he said were attempts to convert poor Muslims by flashing money and smart cars. *His Beatitude said that many Protestant activists had come to Iraq after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein in 2003 and set up what he called "boutiques" to attract converts.

Delly said Iraq did not need missionaries as its Christian churches dated back long before Protestantism. As for trying to convert Muslims, he said: "You can't even talk about that here."

Christians make up 3% of Iraq's 26 million mostly Muslim population, the largest group being the 600,000 Chaldeans who are Eastern rite Catholics linked to the Vatican.

Saying the evangelicals were not real missionaries, Delly said they attracted poor youths with displays of money and taking them "out riding in cars to have fun".

"Then they take photos and send them here, to Germany, to the United States and say 'look how many Muslims have become Christian'," he said.

His Beatitude declined to say if the missionaries were a challenge for his church or if US authorities supported them.

Trying to convert Muslims

The idea of converting Muslims has gained some support among US evangelicals since the September 11 attacks, but foreigners who evangelise in Islamic countries must keep very low profiles.

Some were active in Iraq in the first year after Saddam Hussein's overthrow, but deteriorating security since then probably means many have left, Baghdad residents say.

"There may be between 100 and 200 there now," said Todd Johnson, an expert on world Christianity at the evangelical Gordon-Conwell Seminary near Boston, Massachusetts.

"They're mostly aid workers, I don't think there is much regular evangelising," he said.

Many Muslim countries consider Christian missionaries as part of a Western campaign against Islam and punish both the preacher and the apostate Muslim severely. Unnamed Iraqi groups killed at least five evangelical missionaries last year.

Violent attacks

At least 20 Iraqis were also killed in bombings of Christian churches last year as unknown attackers stepped up pressure on non-Muslims there. Christian minorities in Muslim countries usually keep a low profile and do not evangelise.

Four US Baptist missionaries were killed in Iraq in March 2004 and seven South Korean Presbyterians were briefly kidnapped the following month.

That June, an armed group beheaded a South Korean truck driver who was an evangelical Christian.

Occupation

Mar Delly had no overall figures for these missions but said he knew of 14 evangelical houses in one central Baghdad neighbourhood alone.

"I don't know where their money comes from," His Beatitude added.

The Patriarch, who vigorously opposed the US-led invasion of Iraq and met French President Jacques Chirac - who also opposed it - on Wednesday, declined to comment on Washington's policy there or whether he had contacts with US authorities.

"Frankly, I try to avoid meeting them as much as possible," he said. "They are the occupiers. The occupied don't want to be occupied. That's human nature."

Delly, 77, ranks as an archbishop in the Catholic Church and is tipped as a possible future cardinal. Eastern rite prelates traditionally do not accept such honours but three - a Copt, an Assyrian and a Maronite - are now "princes of the Church".

[missbaghdad]

Delly said Iraq did not need missionaries as its Christian churches dated back long before Protestantism.

That's right, tell em ;)

[UmiSayz]

That man i can respect!

Fist up to him!

m(0.o)

[Kikhwa]

Evangelical missionaries are a huge threat to Catholicism in the Middle East. *People all over the world have been converting left and right to this form of Christianity. *It's already done a number on Mexico. *The number of Catholic turned Evangelical Christian converts is going up everyday. *

I'm sure Mar Delly has good intentions but he's also looking out for his church's own good.

---

[Kikhwa]

The current state of Iraq is the perfect environment for missionaries to come in and "save" these poor people. *Iraqis are broken and scared, so these Evange's think they'll come running toward any glimmer of hope (or what would be other people's version of hope) that comes there way, especially since Islam is so denigrated in the media.

[Samuel]

So it's ok for Catholic missionaries to engage in the food for conversion barter, but not Evangelical Christians? *


Tough shit, sir. *Swallow it.

[Kikhwa]

An' another thing...

Mar Delly knows that the missionaries' actions will backfire not only on the foriegn missionaries themselves, but also on the homegrown Christians of Iraq. *

So for the safety of the Christians of Iraq, the foriegn folks for Christ need to get the **** out.

[missbaghdad]

I have the utmost respect for anyone trying to spread Christianity, but the Evangelists' methods to do so in America as well as in Iraq (what was described in the article) are not down to earth or don't seem honest.

I'd rather they leave too or try to spread Christianity without materialism. It could certainly backfire like you said Kikhwa

[Armenian]

I don't think so much that you all have a problem with Evangelicals because they are Evangelicals. *I believe the problem stems from them being *“dirty rotten” Americans. *And if you have actually DO have animosity toward Evangelicals simply on the grounds of their religion, it’s no better than Sunnis fighting the Shites.

[missbaghdad]

I guess I'm just trying to say... I don't favor extremists in any religion

[Armenian]

this hatred of Evangelists all stems from mixing Politics with religion.. *Which is a shame... *:disgusted:

The issue is that these are westerners going to the Middle East (A BIG NO NO among Middle Easterners). *I myself have never been one to push my Orthodox religion on others, but if Evangelists going to the middle east risking their necks makes them extremists then so be it I guess. *At least they arent blowing themselves up in marketplaces.

[renee]

Rudy's not a dirty stinking American. But watch out Rudy, the patriarch has your number.

[Samuel]

this hatred of Evangelists all stems from mixing Politics with religion.. *Which is a shame... *:disgusted:


Uhh, isn't that what religion was intended for? *Wasn't it meant to provoke "political interests" amongst stupid people? *How else could you justify approval for imperialism, colonialism, reigning evil monarchs and run efficient democracies? *How else could you explain the proletariet in Germany supporting a fascist regime? *The existence and destruction of the HRE? *Yea, i'm pretty sure religion is the most powerful political tool.

Besides, Politics, in its most general definition = a clash of interests. *Different religions may not necessarily have different interests, but they definitely have different methods of convincing their following of its legitimacy.

[rudy]

First of all this is I have no respect for anyone who tries to cause prejudice between any groups of people. I think mar delly is not concerned for any group of people only his pocket book. I believe he does not even know what an evangelical Christian is. First there are many Christian denominations who fall under evangelical umbrella *and also protestant as well and yes some are “wack” but he fails to mention this. Second of all evangelical Christian and protestant churches have always been in Iraq and many other middle-eastern countries for hundreds in some cases thousands of years and take note they have seen more Prejudice from the Roman Catholic Church than any Muslim group. I can go on and on but I will say a few things and leave it at that. I was once a Roman Catholic and all I was taught was to hate the Muslim because of all the horrible rapes and murder and kidnappings committed towards our people. It wasn’t until I began to read the Bible for myself and began to go to an EVANGICAL church when I was taught not only to love the Muslim and mine own enemies as well but to pray for them (see Luke 6:27-30) so they may know the Jesus as their Lord and Savior. And yes I speak to many Muslims and Jews and Catholic’s about my faith and if Mar Delly has a problem with that than what will be his answer to this verse Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore , and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy spirit… also read mark 16:15-16 and Acts 1:8 and Romans 1-16 and II Corinthians 9:13 and II timothy 4:5 and * I peter 3:15 Ext… *And yes there are many Muslims who are giving their lives to Jesus Christ a few are close friends of mine and let me also note this many Catholics are also Giving their lives to Christ I am one!! And Mar delly states this “they attracted poor youths with displays of money and taking them out riding in cars to have fun". Nothing but a LIE. Let me ask can anyone give me an example of someone who was a poor Muslims and became a rich Christian?
Yes there is money being taken to Iraq and many other countries and most of it goes to poor families and rebuilding of hospitals and Churches. I can go on and on about this subject but here is what I’m going to do. I *DARE any Roman Catholic out there to read and study the history of the Roman Catholic Church. Here is a great book for all of you to get John Fox Book of Martyrs and tell me what you think about the history of the Roman Catholic Church. Please People Open your Eyes and see the truth stop taking church leader’s word for everything open your Bibles and read and test your church teachings. In Matthew 24:4-5 say this Take heed that no man deceives you for many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ: and shall deceive many. This is why I always tell people to go and read for yourself don’t take my word for it. But I don’t care what Mar Delly says or anyone for that matter only the words of Christ himself. Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake. The very words of Jesus. Thank you and God Bless.

[rudy]

Rudy's not a dirty stinking American. But watch out Rudy, the patriarch has your number. *:lol: ROTFL!! thaks for the warning renee :lol: *:applause:

[Anonymous]

:?: *:arrow: *:!:

[proudchaldean]

I was once a Roman Catholic and all I was taught was to hate the Muslim because of all the horrible rapes and murder and kidnappings committed towards our people. It wasn’t until I began to read the Bible for myself and began to go to an EVANGICAL church when I was taught not only to love the Muslim and mine own enemies as well but to pray for them

i have a feeling this was what ur family taught u and not our church...have u ever heard a priest say on the pulpit that we should hate the muslims??? *Also, ur gospel quotations mean nothing to a person who realizes the first gospel(Mark) was written 60 years after Jesus' death!!!!

[proudchaldean]

i think this is the reason Mar Delly is so against the evangelicals...
taken from christians of Iraq website...

To convert Muslims to any other religion is considered as a serious offense in the Islamic world. Attempts to proselytize Muslims by the western missionaries incite the ire of all devoted muslims not only against them also against the native Christians whom they wrongly associate with the former because of their common religion. One has to wonder to what extent western missionaries are responsible for the violence against Christians in Iraq. Failing to convert Muslims to Christianity the missionaries usually undermine the local churches by stealing away their members and establishing various denominations among them undermining the religious unity which has helped them to survive for such a long time. In reality missionaries proselytizing not only imperil the native Christians also undermine their unity therefore their future survival. Missionary activities in Iraq raise serious moral questions. While they can pack up and leave at any moment the native Christians have to live with the consequences of their misdeeds

[Teffo]

I was once a Roman Catholic and all I was taught was to hate the Muslim because of all the horrible rapes and murder and kidnappings committed towards our people. It wasn’t until I began to read the Bible for myself and began to go to an EVANGICAL church when I was taught not only to love the Muslim and mine own enemies as well but to pray for them

i have a feeling this was what ur family taught u and not our church...have u ever heard a priest say on the pulpit that we should hate the muslims??? *Also, ur gospel quotations mean nothing to a person who realizes the first gospel(Mark) was written 60 years after Jesus' death!!!!

i agree! *the catholic church doesn't promote hate ANYMORE! *at one point we weren't the greatest (crusades), but we have learned from our mistakes.

[rudy]

I was once a Roman Catholic and all I was taught was to hate the Muslim because of all the horrible rapes and murder and kidnappings committed towards our people. It wasn’t until I began to read the Bible for myself and began to go to an EVANGICAL church when I was taught not only to love the Muslim and mine own enemies as well but to pray for them

i have a feeling this was what ur family taught u and not our church...have u ever heard a priest say on the pulpit that we should hate the muslims??? *Also, ur gospel quotations mean nothing to a person who realizes the first gospel(Mark) was written 60 years after Jesus' death!!!!Yes the Gospel of Luke was written 60 years A.D. I don’t understand what your point is. No my family never taught me to hate anyone as a matter of fact we have Muslims friends. And yes you are correct I never heard a priest say from the pulpit to hate Muslims. But I was never taught how to love those whom believe different from me either. Open the Bible and refute what I said or is this too hard for you to do. People are so blinded by traditions, that what the Bible say anymore doesn’t matter. We can argue till we are blue in the face But I would like to ask you this question. Who is the final authority in your faith? When you argue with someone about your faith what do you use to back up what you say? Please answer me so I know how to respond to you properly. Thank you and GOD BLESS.

[Armenian]

LOL @ the ones trying to convince everyone on how bad and wrong Christianity is. * :lol:

[Samuel]

I was once a Roman Catholic and all I was taught was to hate the Muslim because of all the horrible rapes and murder and kidnappings committed towards our people. It wasn’t until I began to read the Bible for myself and began to go to an EVANGICAL church when I was taught not only to love the Muslim and mine own enemies as well but to pray for them

i have a feeling this was what ur family taught u and not our church...have u ever heard a priest say on the pulpit that we should hate the muslims??? *Also, ur gospel quotations mean nothing to a person who realizes the first gospel(Mark) was written 60 years after Jesus' death!!!!

i agree! *the catholic church doesn't promote hate ANYMORE! *at one point we weren't the greatest (crusades), but we have learned from our mistakes.

NO. *We no longer are at the command of a military. *"We" (assuming you're referring to Church authorities) are still dishonest politicians.


edit: *with all the naiveness aside. *And the religious zealousness down the gutter. *Standing idle while praying for your enemy is about the most irrational thing one can do. *While i might not be a fan of the current administration. *I support *some* of their compellence strategies toward implacable enemies. *You cannot expect to ever appease al qaeda. *And if your strategy is to pray for them... it explains why you're not (ever going to be) in power.

[missbaghdad]

Let me ask can anyone give me an example of someone who was a poor Muslims and became a rich Christian?

I don't think that was the point... the article implies they were flashing the cars and money like shiny objects to children in a war torn country. That's not how you share Jesus Christ and spread Christianity. khateeya.

And about being taught to "hate on" Muslims... I think that's more a cultural thing than a religious thing too.

Christianity and Catholocism teach you to never judge anyone because that's God's job.

I love my churches (I have one American one and one Chaldean one). I love the priests and I love our saints but ultimately I worship God and also know that priests are human too. My priest told us that yes, Church is God's house, but the most important thing about church is receiving the eucharist. It's not about the music or anything else. That is just ceremony and not imperative.

[rudy]

Let me ask can anyone give me an example of someone who was a poor Muslims and became a rich Christian?

I don't think that was the point... the article implies they were flashing the cars and money like shiny objects to children in a war torn country. That's not how you share Jesus Christ and spread Christianity. khateeya.

And about being taught to "hate on" Muslims... I think that's more a cultural thing than a religious thing too.

Christianity and Catholocism teach you to never judge anyone because that's God's job.

I love my churches (I have one American one and one Chaldean one). I love the priests and I love our saints but ultimately I worship God and also know that priests are human too. My priest told us that yes, Church is God's house, but the most important thing about church is receiving the eucharist. It's not about the music or anything else. That is just ceremony and not imperative.So missbagdad are you telling me the comments mar delly made towards evangelicals was not judgmental? And the stupid lies he makes about the car rides and flashing of money to turn a Muslim into a Christian is not going to cause someone to get killed. Well it sure did in the same article towards the end you can see just how many evangelical and Protestants were being killed. O yea how many of his priest have been beheaded? The answer is none! So while he is running to France to complain about the U.S. invasion of Iraq he is trying to start his own little invasion of other Christian who have been there all along but were always silenced by the Catholics leaders. God Bless.

[UmiSayz]

Ok Rudy tell me this. Do you think its right for the "Evangilical" Christians to convert the poor? Do you not remember the Tsunami missionary ...they also tryin to do the same shit. They got in trouble for that. IT is simply wrong and thats what the Patriarch is tryin to say. Its just like the Iraqi elections. Vote for food.

[missbaghdad]

I got all of what you said but the part about the elections and food... can u please explain?

[rudy]

Ok Rudy tell me this. Do you think its right for the "Evangilical" Christians to convert the poor? Do you not remember the Tsunami missionary ...they also tryin to do the same shit. They got in trouble for that. IT is simply wrong and thats what the Patriarch is tryin to say. Its just like the Iraqi elections. Vote for food.Ok umi if anyone is converting someone by bribery, than I agree with you it is wrong. But see let me ask you this and tell me if this is wrong or not. For example in Darfur, Sudan the 12 year old government that is totally sponsored by Saudi Arabia government. Is systemically murdering Christian for not converting to Islam. Is this wrong? Most of my Muslims friends agree with me it is. And please don’t tell me they are not because in 1989 Sudan was 90% Christian today it is less than 40%. I can use China as an example too and many others. Listen when I share my faith with someone I do pray he or she will accept, I will admit that. But I don’t do the converting. The Holy Spirit does. And one other thing there is just as many missionary in wealth countries as there are poor ones. Remember most countries when a natural disaster or war takes place they call for the Christian missionary to come to help as they did when the tsunami hit. Thank you and God Bless.

[an]

I was once a Roman Catholic and all I was taught was to hate the Muslim because of all the horrible rapes and murder and kidnappings committed towards our people. It wasn’t until I began to read the Bible for myself and began to go to an EVANGICAL church when I was taught not only to love the Muslim and mine own enemies as well but to pray for them

i have a feeling this was what ur family taught u and not our church...have u ever heard a priest say on the pulpit that we should hate the muslims??? *Also, ur gospel quotations mean nothing to a person who realizes the first gospel(Mark) was written 60 years after Jesus' death!!!!Yes the Gospel of Luke was written 60 years A.D. I don’t understand what your point is. No my family never taught me to hate anyone as a matter of fact we have Muslims friends. And yes you are correct I never heard a priest say from the pulpit to hate Muslims. But I was never taught how to love those whom believe different from me either. Open the Bible and refute what I said or is this too hard for you to do. People are so blinded by traditions, that what the Bible say anymore doesn’t matter. We can argue till we are blue in the face But I would like to ask you this question. Who is the final authority in your faith? When you argue with someone about your faith what do you use to back up what you say? Please answer me so I know how to respond to you properly. Thank you and GOD BLESS.

I believe in everyones bible there is a chapter on love.

[an]

well when the poor don't have what they want they will do anything for it. *Things we take forgranted.

[rudy]

I was once a Roman Catholic and all I was taught was to hate the Muslim because of all the horrible rapes and murder and kidnappings committed towards our people. It wasn’t until I began to read the Bible for myself and began to go to an EVANGICAL church when I was taught not only to love the Muslim and mine own enemies as well but to pray for them

i have a feeling this was what ur family taught u and not our church...have u ever heard a priest say on the pulpit that we should hate the muslims??? *Also, ur gospel quotations mean nothing to a person who realizes the first gospel(Mark) was written 60 years after Jesus' death!!!!Yes the Gospel of Luke was written 60 years A.D. I don’t understand what your point is. No my family never taught me to hate anyone as a matter of fact we have Muslims friends. And yes you are correct I never heard a priest say from the pulpit to hate Muslims. But I was never taught how to love those whom believe different from me either. Open the Bible and refute what I said or is this too hard for you to do. People are so blinded by traditions, that what the Bible say anymore doesn’t matter. We can argue till we are blue in the face But I would like to ask you this question. Who is the final authority in your faith? When you argue with someone about your faith what do you use to back up what you say? Please answer me so I know how to respond to you properly. Thank you and GOD BLESS.

I believe in everyones bible there is a chapter on love. Yes an you are correct the bible is full of chapters on love. But remember what you said in the last topic. Let me remind you. You said “ the Bible today is not enough” I hope now you see what I was trying to covey to you. Thank you and God Bless.

[Kikhwa]

Rudy-

I've known a lot of Evangelical Christians to love those who are religiously different from them by praying for them and their conversion.

I hope that's not what you're referring to when you talk of loving those different from you.

Can you clarify that for me?

:|

[rudy]

[color=deepskyblue]Rudy-

I've known a lot of Evangelical Christians to love those who are religiously different from them by praying for them and their conversion.

I hope that's not what you're referring to when you talk of loving those different from you.

Can you clarify that for me? :| I'm sorry Kikhwa I dont understand your question. Please rephrase it for me. so i can answer. Thank you

[UmiSayz]

Is systemically murdering Christian for not converting to Islam. Is this wrong?




Of course its wrong! Forcing someone into a religion is "haram" and God forbids this. Why you bring that up? Just because i'm muslim? You think i'm bias about what goes on in my religion? Any wrong doing onto others i frown upon. I have no respect for anyone who does horrible things.

[rudy]

Is systemically murdering Christian for not converting to Islam. Is this wrong?




Of course its wrong! Forcing someone into a religion is "haram" and God forbids this. Why you bring that up? Just because i'm muslim? You think i'm bias about what goes on in my religion? Any wrong doing onto others i frown upon. I have no respect for anyone who does horrible things.I asked you the question umi not to point my figure at you. But can you see what this article is doing. It’s putting a label on such a large group of people whom call themselves Evangelical and or Protestants. What evangelical and or Protestants groups is this guy talking about? *But you ask me about the Evangelical who went to help in the tsunami disaster. And they got in trouble. What group of evangelical are you talking about? Evangelical’ or Protestants are not a denomination. That is just a label given to them to separate them from other realigns. There are some good evangelical and or Protestants and some that are off the wall WACK. I was trying to use your logic. That’s why I said that. Thank you and God Bless.

[Teffo]

I was once a Roman Catholic and all I was taught was to hate the Muslim because of all the horrible rapes and murder and kidnappings committed towards our people. It wasn’t until I began to read the Bible for myself and began to go to an EVANGICAL church when I was taught not only to love the Muslim and mine own enemies as well but to pray for them

i have a feeling this was what ur family taught u and not our church...have u ever heard a priest say on the pulpit that we should hate the muslims??? *Also, ur gospel quotations mean nothing to a person who realizes the first gospel(Mark) was written 60 years after Jesus' death!!!!

i agree! *the catholic church doesn't promote hate ANYMORE! *at one point we weren't the greatest (crusades), but we have learned from our mistakes.

NO. *We no longer are at the command of a military. *"We" (assuming you're referring to Church authorities) are still dishonest politicians.


edit: *with all the naiveness aside. *And the religious zealousness down the gutter. *Standing idle while praying for your enemy is about the most irrational thing one can do. *While i might not be a fan of the current administration. *I support *some* of their compellence strategies toward implacable enemies. *You cannot expect to ever appease al qaeda. *And if your strategy is to pray for them... it explains why you're not (ever going to be) in power.

sam i was referring to the people who follow the church...that HOPEFULLY have learned from our past....

they say if you don;t know your history you;re doomed to repeat it. (loosely quoting)

[CHALDEANELVIS]

I agree with Rudy whole heartedly. When I witness to non believers or just anyone in general, they love the words that the Holy Spirit annoints my tounge with. I will give them a run down of the Gospel of Christ and explain to them the necessity of Christ our Savior. They will rejoice in every word that comes out of my mouth, which I take credit for none, until they find out that I am not a Catholic. Once they slap that Protestant label on me, all my words become void, as well as the clear teachings in the Bible. It is because of this "labeling" that so many are left astray. It is because of ignorance that so many have questions that are clearly answered in sacred scripture. I disagree with Mar Delly for saying basically that "we pay them to join us" That is a down right LIE. Christ ordered us to go fourth and preach the Gospel unto all nations, the Great Commision (Matt. 28:19, Mark 16:15) *There is nothing that we evangelicals preach that is contradictive to sacred scripture, nothing. What is the Gospel one might ask? Christ died, rose from the dead 3 days later and is seated at the right hand of God. Christ said in Romans 10:9 that if you profess with your mouth that Jesus is LORD and believe in your heart that He was raised from the dead, you shall be saved.

We walk by faith through grace alone. There is nothing you or I can do to inherit the Kingdom outside of God. "For it is not by works, but by faith, lest any man should boast" I am willing to challenge anyone on any topic they want to choose. I am speaking in love. If I have offended anyone, I apologize. I have a passion for the word of God. I want this to be a great learning experience for all.

Someone inquired about prayer to saints and Mary and then Rudy challenged everyone on this board to provide (1), just (1) verse in the entire 66 books in the Bible that supports veneration to a saint or Mary. Let me save you some time, you won't ever find it. The problem with the word "veneration" is that it's not to be used in contrast to what Roman Catholics actually do. Worship would be the word that I would use. Why? Any form of prayer of worship. When God said pray to Me and Me alone, for no one else knows and searches the heart of men, He meant it. Veneration is actually a form of idolatery and if you want to know what God thinks of idolaters, turn to Exodus 20 or do a search at Bible.com in the word idolatery. I fear that all the Roman Catholic teachings detract from the true love and devotion of Christ. Since we have so many saints to choose from, let alone Mary, where do we find Christ? When you hear a chaldean in distress or sorrow, dont you often hear them utter "maut mariam"? This is what happens when you match the divine power of Christ with canonized saints and Mary. People begin to favor "St Jude for health" or "St Anthony for miracles" What about Christ? Let me tell you something, we don't see anywhere in the Bible that even remotely suggests that Christ can't nor won't do anything we ask Him. John 15:16 "If you ask me ANYTHING in My name, I shall do it" Philippians 4:6 "Make ALL prayers, petitions, requests with thanksgiving made known to GOD" To who? God. 1 Timothy 2:5 as Rudy has shown you "One mediator between God and man, that man is Jesus Christ" See, there is one person that can mediate for you, no one else. Not a saint, not a deceased loved one, not even Mary. I speak words of the Bible. If you want to get into the sufficiency of scripture, I'll be more than happy. Again, I am doing this out of love for my people and knowledge. One more thing, if you ever wonder where a teaching came from or why you were taught a certain way, Christ orders you to "test all things", that is, in scripture. If you see an angel and he/she says "do 100 push-ups and pray this prayer and I will help a loved one in hell" TEST IT! I LOVE YOU GUYS. KEEP YOUR HEAD IN THE GOOD BOOK =)

[rudy]

:lol: Hey allright!! I got my own fan club going! I like it **LOL :lol: *:alright: *:alright: *:mrgreen:

[missbaghdad]

^^OK Rudy

[rudy]

Ok everyone let me now try to say a few things so no one leave this topic with the wrong idea. I love my people (chaldean assyrian) very much. But we have been blinded by traditions. Traditions are not wrong as long as they go with scripture. And if we are going to call ourselves Christian we must abide by the Holy Scriptures. When I speak about my faith I don’t try to get people to join my church if they want to that’s up to them. But you need to know something very very important. My church and your church or any church for that matter will not bring you salvation it’s the Grace of God ALONE through the Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. And if you don’t put your faith in His Grace the Bible says you will not see the Kingdome of God. You must have faith in Jesus alone!! In Romans 10:17 says Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of GOD. This is why I use scripture to back what I try to say to all of you I’m not trying to shove my faith down anyone’s throat. But if you are going to misuse the book that I base my faith in I will do my best to defend it. And I know the rumors that are out there about my church. How we supposedly hate Mary. I don’t hate her or any of the saints. And I can’t waite till I see her someday (which I know I will). But I look much more forward to see my blessed Lord Jesus face to face. Please read your bibles! And spend time in prayer to God. and he will show you the truth. Thank you and God Bless.

John 6:47-48 *He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am the Bread Of LIFE

[UmiSayz]

What group of evangelical are you talking about?




The ones who went to Iraq ;)

[an]

I was once a Roman Catholic and all I was taught was to hate the Muslim because of all the horrible rapes and murder and kidnappings committed towards our people. It wasn’t until I began to read the Bible for myself and began to go to an EVANGICAL church when I was taught not only to love the Muslim and mine own enemies as well but to pray for them

i have a feeling this was what ur family taught u and not our church...have u ever heard a priest say on the pulpit that we should hate the muslims??? *Also, ur gospel quotations mean nothing to a person who realizes the first gospel(Mark) was written 60 years after Jesus' death!!!!Yes the Gospel of Luke was written 60 years A.D. I don’t understand what your point is. No my family never taught me to hate anyone as a matter of fact we have Muslims friends. And yes you are correct I never heard a priest say from the pulpit to hate Muslims. But I was never taught how to love those whom believe different from me either. Open the Bible and refute what I said or is this too hard for you to do. People are so blinded by traditions, that what the Bible say anymore doesn’t matter. We can argue till we are blue in the face But I would like to ask you this question. Who is the final authority in your faith? When you argue with someone about your faith what do you use to back up what you say? Please answer me so I know how to respond to you properly. Thank you and GOD BLESS.

I believe in everyones bible there is a chapter on love. Yes an you are correct the bible is full of chapters on love. But remember what you said in the last topic. Let me remind you. You said “ the Bible today is not enough” I hope now you see what I was trying to covey to you. Thank you and God Bless.


Rudy don't take literally what im saying!!!! Go to church as welll and partake in religious holidays. *dont' just sit home and read the bible. Show you are a follower of religion.

[Armenian]

It is said that a man stranded on a deserted Island can be more religious than a man in Church.. People need to stop trying to measure other's faith.

[rudy]

What group of evangelical are you talking about?




The ones who went to Iraq ;) Umi here is what I’m trying to say. Protestants we have some Lutherans, united Presbyterians, Presbyterians, reformers, and, reformed Baptist, Methodist and,
many many many many *more. Evangelicals we have southern Baptist, American Baptist, independent Baptist, Evangelical Lutherans, Pentecostals, Calvary chapel and many many many many many many more. I don’t want to get into which one are bad and which ones are good. But here is what my problem is the mar has taken everyone who is not catholic put them under one name used extremists as an example and wants to get rid of them. It’s the same logic used by the idiots who try to say “all Muslims are terrorist because hey the suicide bombers are Muslims too” which is wrong. This is my biggest problem with this article. I hope now everyone understands!!!!!!!!!!! *God Bless.

[rudy]

I was once a Roman Catholic and all I was taught was to hate the Muslim because of all the horrible rapes and murder and kidnappings committed towards our people. It wasn’t until I began to read the Bible for myself and began to go to an EVANGICAL church when I was taught not only to love the Muslim and mine own enemies as well but to pray for them

i have a feeling this was what ur family taught u and not our church...have u ever heard a priest say on the pulpit that we should hate the muslims??? *Also, ur gospel quotations mean nothing to a person who realizes the first gospel(Mark) was written 60 years after Jesus' death!!!!Yes the Gospel of Luke was written 60 years A.D. I don’t understand what your point is. No my family never taught me to hate anyone as a matter of fact we have Muslims friends. And yes you are correct I never heard a priest say from the pulpit to hate Muslims. But I was never taught how to love those whom believe different from me either. Open the Bible and refute what I said or is this too hard for you to do. People are so blinded by traditions, that what the Bible say anymore doesn’t matter. We can argue till we are blue in the face But I would like to ask you this question. Who is the final authority in your faith? When you argue with someone about your faith what do you use to back up what you say? Please answer me so I know how to respond to you properly. Thank you and GOD BLESS.

I believe in everyones bible there is a chapter on love. Yes an you are correct the bible is full of chapters on love. But remember what you said in the last topic. Let me remind you. You said “ the Bible today is not enough” I hope now you see what I was trying to covey to you. Thank you and God Bless.


Rudy don't take literally what im saying!!!! Go to church as welll and partake in religious holidays. *dont' just sit home and read the bible. Show you are a follower of religion. I do a lot more than just sit at home an. but thank you anyway. God Bless.

[UmiSayz]

Rudy- I dont think that the Patriarch was labeling all Evangelicals ...just the ones who went to Iraq. They've done this numerous of times. I dont want to say anything about something i dont know but it seems to me thats what they practice. Or maybe they just came up with that stupid method on converting vurnable ppl? Did you know Bush is an Evangelical? Seems to me that they seek to conquer.

[rudy]

Rudy- I dont think that the Patriarch was labeling all Evangelicals ...just the ones who went to Iraq. They've done this numerous of times. I dont want to say anything about something i dont know but it seems to me thats what they practice. Or maybe they just came up with that stupid method on converting vurnable ppl? Did you know Bush is an Evangelical? Seems to me that they seek to conquer. trust me umi i know how Bush tells people he is an evangical and a lot of good evangical have jumped on the bush band wagon. *but i believe he deceived many good people just to get a vote. I think bush has a disgusting foreign police. and I don't even want to get started on that issue. but i believe that bin-laden and bush are using the same tactics. using the name of realigon to get people all rield up to do what they cant on their own. I belive it was Marks who made the statement 'religion is the opium of the masses". thou I don't believe in all carl marks comments he nailed it on this one. matthew 7:22-23 says ths "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not peophesied in they name? and in thy name have cast out devils" and in the name done many wonderful works"? and Jesus says "I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me Ye workers of iniquity" thank you and God Bless.

[Samuel]

Rudy- I dont think that the Patriarch was labeling all Evangelicals ...just the ones who went to Iraq. They've done this numerous of times. I dont want to say anything about something i dont know but it seems to me thats what they practice. Or maybe they just came up with that stupid method on converting vurnable ppl? Did you know Bush is an Evangelical? Seems to me that they seek to conquer. trust me umi i know how Bush tells people he is an evangical and a lot of good evangical have jumped on the bush band wagon. *but i believe he deceived many good people just to get a vote. I think bush has a disgusting foreign police. and I don't even want to get started on that issue. but i believe that bin-laden and bush are using the same tactics. using the name of realigon to get people all rield up to do what they cant on their own. I belive it was Marks who made the statement 'religion is the opium of the masses". thou I don't believe in all carl marks comments he nailed it on this one. matthew 7:22-23 says ths "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not peophesied in they name? and in thy name have cast out devils" and in the name done many wonderful works"? and Jesus says "I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me Ye workers of iniquity" thank you and God Bless.

Religion a political tool? *You don't say? * :shock:


:alright:

[CHALDEANELVIS]

Bush an evangelical! ha ha ha ha, thats a good one *:bang:

[rudy]

Rudy- I dont think that the Patriarch was labeling all Evangelicals ...just the ones who went to Iraq. They've done this numerous of times. I dont want to say anything about something i dont know but it seems to me thats what they practice. Or maybe they just came up with that stupid method on converting vurnable ppl? Did you know Bush is an Evangelical? Seems to me that they seek to conquer. trust me umi i know how Bush tells people he is an evangical and a lot of good evangical have jumped on the bush band wagon. *but i believe he deceived many good people just to get a vote. I think bush has a disgusting foreign police. and I don't even want to get started on that issue. but i believe that bin-laden and bush are using the same tactics. using the name of realigon to get people all rield up to do what they cant on their own. I belive it was Marks who made the statement 'religion is the opium of the masses". thou I don't believe in all carl marks comments he nailed it on this one. matthew 7:22-23 says ths "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not peophesied in they name? and in thy name have cast out devils" and in the name done many wonderful works"? and Jesus says "I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me Ye workers of iniquity" thank you and God Bless.

Religion a political tool? *You don't say? * :shock:


:alright: samd i understand why you may make the comments you do. I used to think realigon is for a weak induvigual who cant think on his own. when I began to read and study for myself I could not help but see all the proof in the writings. Yes I agree their are lots of politician and realigous leader who have used the name of realigon as a political tool. but that is why I don't use people to influence my faith I stand on scripture alone. All I ask of you is that you don't put 1 label on a induvigual. because of some who will misuse the Word of Christ. But I still challenge you to test scripture for yourself. God Bless

[John_5_24]

Did you know Bush is an Evangelical?

Bush is actually Methodist, and I do not believe that Methodists claim the title "Evangelical".

[UmiSayz]

Bush is actually Methodist, and I do not believe that Methodists claim the title "Evangelical".


Well hes preacher is an Evangelical ...forgot his name. I could've sworn that he mentioned that hes Evangelical.

[BONO]

I just met The Patriarck Mar Delly ;)

[SamIAM™]

I just met The Patriarck Mar Delly ;)

can i kiss ur hand now *:mrgreen:

[BONO]

I just met The Patriarck Mar Delly ;)

can i kiss ur hand now *:mrgreen:

I washed it already..

[SamIAM™]

with holy water ? *

lol

[BONO]

with holy water ? *

lol

no, with Strawberry Daquiry, and Belvadiere.

[CHALDEANELVIS]

Repent all ye!