Chaldean: Race; Religion; or Culture

[renee]

I'd like to poll the members. What do u guys thing?

BTW, if it's not a race, we have a lot of explaining to do to the US Government whom we convinced it is a race.

[sammiedebull]

wow, stupid thread renee :)

[ojeen1981]

i dont even know where to start, ill just keep shut, its much easier that way!

[Shlama_98]

Race - No, but Chaldeans are part of the Human race :)

Culture - Maybe, but the modern Chaldean Culture is a Syriac Culture, not an ancient Chaldean one.

Religion - Yes, since the name Chaldean is a sect name given by the Roman Catholic Church to the Assyrian Nestorians who followed Rome a couple of hundred years ago.

I won't go into details, but whoever wants me to I don't mind, just my 2 dinars :)

[ojeen1981]

shlama, i agree with that 100 %...well done bro

[renee]

In that case, chaldean businesses shouldn't get minority status bc we don't give minority status for religion.

http://www.mbda.gov/?section_id=1&bucket_id=7&content_id=2737

[pfizzles_sister101]

if your chaldean:
your religion is catholic(usually)
Your culture is that of Iraqi desent
Your race is chaldean
I think that might be right??, althought I'm not sure about the cultura part.

[Shlama_98]

In that case, chaldean businesses shouldn't get minority status bc we don't give minority status for religion.

http://www.mbda.gov/?section_id=1&bucket_id=7&content_id=2737

Well they are a minority, what did you think they were?

Let's face it, there's probably around 120,000 Chaldo-Assyrians in Michigan, another 100,000 in Chicago, and perhaps another 180,000 in other areas like Californea, Arizona, NY, NJ, and the rest of the country, all together there's 400,000 Chaldo-Assyrians in the United States, what's the American population? around 300 million? 400,000 out of 300 million is a legit minority don't you think?

[maximus]

RENEE i am very impressed that somone for ones uses a .gov or .org site for valid information then using .com .net *to prove points :)

[meme913]

We are a culture not a race.

[renee]

In that case, chaldean businesses shouldn't get minority status bc we don't give minority status for religion.

http://www.mbda.gov/?section_id=1&bucket_id=7&content_id=2737

Well they are a minority, what did you think they were?

Let's face it, there's probably around 120,000 Chaldo-Assyrians in Michigan, another 100,000 in Chicago, and perhaps another 180,000 in other areas like Californea, Arizona, NY, NJ, and the rest of the country, all together there's 400,000 Chaldo-Assyrians in the United States, what's the American population? around 300 million? 400,000 out of 300 million is a legit minority don't you think?

But since we separate government from religion in the United States a group claiming minority status based on religion should not get any aid from the government. So if we do define ourselves as a religious group and not a racial/ethnic group, we may be hoisting oursleves on our own petard.

[Shlama_98]

But since we separate government from religion in the United States a group claiming minority status based on religion should not get any aid from the government. So if we do define ourselves as a religious group and not a racial/ethnic group, we may be hoisting oursleves on our own petard.

When I said the Chaldeans are a religious sect I meant their name "Chaldean", not the people, this name was given to these people by the Roman Catholic Church, before the term Chaldean these people were known as Assyrian Nestorians, in fact the village of Alqosh at one point was the home of the Nestorian Church, so I was talking about the name, not the people. *

Putting history aside, us as a nation come in many different names, some of us call ourselves Assyrians, some say Chaldeans, some say Chaldo-Assyrians (For the same of unity), and some even say Arameans, but we all agree that we're Syriacs (Sorayeh, Suryayeh, Suryoyeh), we're not Arabs, we're not Kurds, we may come from Iraq but there's some of us who are from Syria, Iran, Turkey, and Lebanon, therefore we cannot say that we're Iraqis because there's people from our own group that are not Iraqis, the only ones that can say Iraqis are the ones from Iraq.

So we have our own group, we all speak Syriac, we all call ourselves Syriacs (We may disagree with the other names but none of us is going to disagree with Syriac), that's the nation that we have, just because Chaldean is a religious name it does't mean the Chaldean community is a religious community, it's an ethnic community and it's a Syriac one, therefore it's a legit minority, in fact our entire nation is a legit minority worldwide, our population is barely 3 million around the world, what does that tell you?

[Emma_Girl]

The Chaldean Community, whether it's from Iraq, Australia, or America, is part of the Chaldean Race/Ethnicity. It is a Race/Ethnicity. Yes, it has to do with a lot of Cultural and Religious upbringing and ideals, but being a Chaldean is a race. Just like when you're filling out an application, and they ask for Race/Ethnicity, you mark if there is a Chaldean option. *Our religion is part of the Catholic Rites so we're Catholic and although we have our own traditions and folklore, our culture is still Middle Eastern inspired.

Race: A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

[Corleone]

We Are A Minority!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shlama_98]

The Chaldean Community, whether it's from Iraq, Australia, or America, is part of the Chaldean Race/Ethnicity. It is a Race/Ethnicity. Yes, it has to do with a lot of Cultural and Religious upbringing and ideals, but being a Chaldean is a race. Just like when you're filling out an application, and they ask for Race/Ethnicity, you mark if there is a Chaldean option. *Our religion is part of the Catholic Rites so we're Catholic and although we have our own traditions and folklore, our culture is still Middle Eastern inspired.

Race: A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

Umm, when you fill out an application there's no option that says Chaldean, if you're talking about that then it's Middle Eastern, there's also Caucasian, African, Hispanic, Asian, and I forgot what else, but these are racial diffrences within the human race, therefore the term Chaldean is not a race, but you can say that it belongs to the human race under the Middle Eastern branch.

Although I disagree with the term Chaldean for our ethnicity because it's misleading, but the term is for an ethnic group, not a race.

[Emma_Girl]

Shlama.
There are a lot of public organizations that are placing Chaldean/Arab as an option under Race, especially within the City of Detroit. I know for a fact that the Detroit Public Schools currently have Chaldean as an option due to the fact that such a large Chaldean Population *live in Detroit.
Yes, *I know we are all part of the Human Race, but all of the cutlures are labeled within their own categories to support statistics and research within the different cities. This is why Detroit has done this to recognize the fact that Chaldeans do live in Detroit and to keep a record of how the students are performing on the tests. However, in the forms, the option is labeled as Arab/Chaldean, not just Chaldean.
Whether or not the term Chaldean is valid to represent our people is not my arguement. *Although the term Chaldean reflects the religious influence, it's still the way our people are recognized. *Even though the Catholic Church has had a huge influence in the way our community is shaped, this does not mean that all Chaldeans are Catholic. I know there are a lot of people out there that will disagree with this, but you do not have to be Catholic to be Chaldean. Although, Catholic is the predominate religion within the Chaldean community, it does not mean one is less of a Chaldean if they're practicing other religions.

[ojeen1981]

chaldean is not a race
"chaldean", like shalma said, is a name given to these people from the Roman Catholic church.

Chaldeans are Cacasian, by raqce
Chaldeans are iraqi by nationality (or any other country they were born in)
Chaldeans are assyrian/syriacs by ethncity

so,yes chaldeans are a minority just like how armenians are a minority based on ethnic background, even though armenians are also cacusian.

[Shlama_98]

Shlama.
There are a lot of public organizations that are placing Chaldean/Arab as an option under Race, especially within the City of Detroit. I know for a fact that the Detroit Public Schools currently have Chaldean as an option due to the fact that such a large Chaldean Population *live in Detroit.
Yes, *I know we are all part of the Human Race, but all of the cutlures are labeled within their own categories to support statistics and research within the different cities. This is why Detroit has done this to recognize the fact that Chaldeans do live in Detroit and to keep a record of how the students are performing on the tests. However, in the forms, the option is labeled as Arab/Chaldean, not just Chaldean.
Whether or not the term Chaldean is valid to represent our people is not my arguement. *Although the term Chaldean reflects the religious influence, it's still the way our people are recognized. *Even though the Catholic Church has had a huge influence in the way our community is shaped, this does not mean that all Chaldeans are Catholic. I know there are a lot of people out there that will disagree with this, but you do not have to be Catholic to be Chaldean. Although, Catholic is the predominate religion within the Chaldean community, it does not mean one is less of a Chaldean if they're practicing other religions.

They have that in Detroit eh? that's quite interesting :)

Anyways, whether the Chaldean option is on those papers or not it still does't make the term "Chaldean" a race, maybe on Detroit papers it is but in reality there's no Chaldean race, I guess they added that Arab/Chaldean option because together they form a big population in Detroit, but I'm 100% sure you'll never see this outside of Detroit, because there's no such thing as Chaldean race.

As for the religious Chaldean Catholics and the non-religious Chaldeans, well it's true that a lot of modern Chaldeans are probably not religious yet they feel Chaldean, but that just tells me that these non-religious Chaldeans come from a family that accepted the Catholic faith and joined the Chaldean Catholic Church at some point, that's all.

[pfizzle]

I thought it was a movement... I guess I was wrong.

[Teffo]

im not even going to begin to read about how ppl are stating that chaldean is a religion....THAT IS MORONIC! *PURE AND SIMPLE...IT'S A CULTURE :)

[ojeen1981]

teffo....am sorry..but chaldean refers to being catholic.

[Teffo]

ojeen the split between assy & chaldos happened before christ...the name was around waaaaaaay before the catholic church...

i'll send you a copy of sayidna sarhad yammo yousip phd works...he is the number professor in the world about this area of study:)

[ojeen1981]

teffo, plz send it, i would love to read his work. *I have a question for u and for him though..name me one chaldean biship between the years of after the death of christ till the 15th century....."chaldean bishops" did not come about till after the split of the church. *the chaldeans of ancient time are totaly different. *thanks

[CAMPPAIN]

Yes but what Chaldeans were back then is different from now.

I'm glad to see some others share what I have read.

And my mom claims she is Chaldean, yet I just say Assyrian.

Nice replies Shlama and ojeen

[Teffo]

ok wait...so what you;re saying is that the chaldean name has changed it;'s meaning bc of christ? *


i stick to what i said

[ojeen1981]

what i am saying is that christ has nothing to do with the chaldean mame. *chaldean name is given from the roman catholic church to assyrians/syriacs in the region of the middle east. *i can give u a ddetalied history on this and u can do your own research and let me know if u come up with something different. *much thanks cammpain

[Teffo]

lmaooo you;re contradicting yourself...you just said that it was name given to us by the roman catholic church and now you're saying it has nothing to do with christ...that's an oxymoron!

[ojeen1981]

what does christ have to do with an established poitical relgion like the Roman Catholic church??? explain to me the rleationship

[Teffo]

are you kidding me...??

[ojeen1981]

Am not kidding u..and let me explain this to you really quick. *

Christ is was the founder of the Christian faith. *He was not the fonder of Catholicism, orthodoxy, Protestantism. *The gospels tell us about the teachings of Christ. *After the transcendence of Christ to heaven, their was some dispute among the first converts as to how carry out manners and issues in church. *And we learn about this in the book of acts, romans etc. * however, later on in the history of the church came a split due to some disagreement on the divinity of Christ (something I wount get into for clarification purposes). *As a result, around the 5th century AD we have the Great Schism in the church. *We now have Catholics and orthodox, each one is different, yet similar. *Christ was not the founder of neither, he has nothing to do with it. *Catholic church was a powerful entity over Europe and carried out the crusades to kill others, this is not something Christ wanted or had anything to do with.

[Shlama_98]

Chaldean is used before Christ and also after Christ, Teffo is referring to the real ancient Chaldeans who lived in Southern Mesopotamia which is a different group then the modern Chaldeans.

Teffo I don't know what Sarhad Jammo wrote but the actual Chaldeans were not a branch from the Assyrians, it was more like Babylon was part of the Assyrian empire (Back then power used to shift often from Assyria to Babylon and back to Assyria and so on), Assyria itself was originally a Babylonian colony and it became free for the first time around 1800 BC under the Amorite king Shamshi-Adad I, and then Hammurabbi took it back and made it part of his Babylonian empire, but this has nothing to do with the Chaldeans since it was during the Amorite dynasty.

The split of Chaldeans and Assyrians that happened BC was not actually a spilt between the two groups, but it was a betrayal of an Assyrian brother to the other for an unknown reason, the Assyrian kings obviously put their kids to be kings after them, Babylon was perhaps the second most important political place after Nineveh in the Assyrian empire so the king usually used to put one of his sons as a king over it, and if not his son then an Assyrian puppet so they can keep control.

King Essarhadon put his son Ashur Banibal as the king of the Assyrian empire and put one of his other sons by the name of Shamash Shumukin as the king of Babylon, Shamash rose up against his brother Ashur for an unknown reason, he made an alliance with the Elamites, Chaldean tribes, and some Arab tribes and went to battle against his brother, of course his brother Ashur won the battle and defeated them all and it was one of the most famous Assyrian battles (Even the tablets show Arabs running away with their camels), but that's when Babylon started to break away from Assyria, so after Ashur Banibal's death (He was the last great Assyrian king), Assyria became weak and the Chaldean tribes in Babylon started taking advantage, so they started gaining power and the first Chaldean Babylonian king was Nabopolassar who joined forces with the Medes to defeat Assyria, so you see the original Chaldean tribes never actually split from the Assyrians, it was Ashur Banibal's brother who created this problem in the beggening and the Chaldeans saw their chance in it.

Around 2000 years later the people living in South Mesopotamia were Muslims (So the Ancient Chaldees most likely converted to Islam and adopted the Arabic language), the Assyrians on the other hand barely survived, so 1551 AD the Roman Catholics came and about 100 years after that the Chaldean name came in the picture again, I won't go into details (Unless people wanna know), but I have a feeling you heard the story a zillion times lol.

[ojeen1981]

shlama gave u the history BC and i gave u the history AD...even though mine is very primitive for clarity's sake.

[SamIAM™]

I think its a religion and a culture

[Emma_Girl]

Hmmm, I could see how it could be a culture, but what do you say if someone asks what your race is? Do you say Caucasion? Or would you say Chaldean American? If you say Chaldean, then that would make Chaldean a race.

[Teffo]

lmaooo...ri-ght guys...so are you claiming that assyrian is a religion too?

[ojeen1981]

Chaldean is a dialect of the Syriac language, and so is Assyrian. *Chaldean is not a race, the race is Caucasian. *Assyrians, Chaldeans, Syriacs, Jacobites all belong to the same ethnic group. I have no problem in people calling themselves chaldean or what ever, as long as you know your history and where u came from.

[Emma_Girl]

I know my history, but the main question here was not talking about where we came from and how we came about being who we are. The question was if you consider Chaldean a race, culture or religion. So, you still did not answer my question, are you going to say you're Chaldean if you're asked for your race/ethnicity? I didn't need the lecture because I already know my history. *Yeah I know the way we live is focused around cultural understanding and upbringing, but the bottom line is that wheather it's the Census Bureau or your job application, the Chaldean Federation of American, the Chaldean Church, or any other Chaldean run Government Organization want people to say they are Chaldean. Period. That is why in 2000 the churches were going all nuts making sure people labeled their Census forms right. The question here was not based on if we knew where we came from, but revolved around how we identify ourselves.

[nibras]

Iam so confused! :disgusted:

[ojeen1981]

dear Emma, if u know youe history, than u must be able to distinguish between history and politics. *Their has been a movement in the catholic chaldean churches lately to ensure that chaldeans become adamant about labeling themselves "chaldean" as an ethnic group. *You, as a person, must be able to intellectually understand the differeances between this propaganda and what history tells u. *I myself tell people that am an Iraqi. *If they ask further, I tell them I am a Syriac becuase I am not chaldean in a way. *

Like i said before, if you know your history, which you already do, than no one can fool you on who you are, may be it be a church, goverment office , etc.

[Teffo]

i know my history ojeen...and you can't classify chaldean as a religion...btw fyi...i don't say i'm chaldean...i say i'm assyrian :) *and i'm catholic...not church of the east :)

[ojeen1981]

I am not classigying chaldean as a religion, history does. *chaldean is a dialect of the syriac language. *chaldean refers to being catholic in the catholic dictionary.

[Emma_Girl]

Thanks, but when I first meet people and they ask me what I am, I say that I'm Chaldean. You might have your own identify and that's cool, but this is how I stand.

They only get the Lecture of Chaldean 101 after second base. Otherwise, it's Chaldean only. However, most of these conversations lead to the whole story before you know it because we "Chaldeans" love talking about ourselves.

[nina]

What about Assyrians-- Are they a religion a culture or a race? Look I feel this question is confusing because I still do not see why we have two names Assyrians and Chaldeans, when we have everything the same--I mean look at our flag, look at our language, look at our clothing and our culture and if u say religion well we both believe in our savior Lord Jesus. Therefore, it is hard to tell what Chaldeans are because we have the name Assyria. If we combine the two what are we then? Aren’t we still the same?? I am sorry if I am getting off topic.

[Shlama_98]

We are all the same Nina, Assyrians/Chaldeans/Syrianis.

What's our ethnic background? we're a mixed nation, we have a mixed ethnic background, but the most common mixes are Assyrian, Aramean, Hebrew, Akkadian, Amorite, Persian, Turkish, Hurrian, Indian, and probably Mongol, we also have some Armenian from the recent times when we mixed with them.

Our language is all the same (Syriac Aramaic) with 2 major dialects, the Eastern dialect is the Assyrian/Chaldean dialects and the Western dialect is the Syriani dialect, but it's the same language, same alphabets, with slight differences.

The most important thing is our nationality, sadly most of us disagree on this point because some say we're Assyrians, some say we're Chaldeans, some say Arameans, and the rest say we're all Syriacs, the ones I agree with are Assyrians and Syriacs, I agree with Assyrian because the region we come from was an Assyrian region, the people who lived in it were Assyrian citizens (Our ancestors), now some of you might jump out and say "Well I'm Iraqi since that part is Iraq today, not Assyria", that's true, but keep in mind that if we say we're an Iraqi nation then it means we're saying that those Syriacs from Syria/Turkey/Iran are not from our nation which is stupid because they are and they're the same group.

Our people live in 4 major parts, Iraq/Iran/Syria/Turkey, some live in Lebanon, so if we look at the 4 major regions and the areas where our people live in we see that the majority live in an Ancient Assyrian region, meaning our ancestors who came from this land were Assyrian citizens, so while the Syriacs in Iraq and Turkey are different with their modern countries, but historically they were both Assyrians in citizenship.

If not the name Assyrian then the name Syriac will be fine, the problem is Syriac is the name of our language, so technically we should be called Syrians but because the term has been hijacked so we say Syriacs, this is why I only agree with the terms Assyrian/Syriac, Chaldean is misleading if you mean it for a nationality or an ethnic background because the modern Chaldean name was given to our people by the Roman Catholic Church to represent the followers of the Chaldean Catholic Church, before the Chaldean name was given to them they were Assyrian Nestorians, and while the original Ancient Chaldean term (Before Christ) was not a religious one, the modern one is because it was given to us for Church political/religious reasons.

[nina]

Shlama_98 i agree with you 100% Everything you have said is true. I strongly feel if we don't use the name Assyrian or Syriac then our history will be lost.

[Orgazmo]

Chaldeans are definitely a religious group. By that logic, I'm not Chaldean. I guess I'm an ethnic Assyrian, whatever that means.

[Makko]

this is a really stupid thread. chaldean/assyrian is an ethnicity/culture. our race is middle-eastern/semetic. and our religion is catholic/orthodox. deal with it! lool

[rudy]

this is a really stupid thread. chaldean/assyrian is an ethnicity/culture. our race is middle-eastern/semetic. and our religion is catholic/orthodox. deal with it! lool

1. Are you trying to say Roman Catholic and or Greek Orthodox?

2. Are you speaking on behalf of everyone?

[Truth 69]

Chaldean is a Race and a Culture


The Chaldeans set up the Second Babylonian Empire from 605BC to 550BC. Here's a brief list of what they did.
The Chaldeans help overthrow the Assyrians.
They set up the Second Babylonian Empire led by Nebuchadnezzar II (also known as Nebuchadrezzar II). He rebuilt the city of Babylon. It became the largest and most beautiful city in the ancient world.
The Chaldeans also built the "Hanging Gardens" on rooftops of Babylon. It was one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.
They advanced astronomy by making accurate observations of the sun, moon, planets, and stars.
The creation of the Tower of Babel is believed to been built during this time.
Nebuchadnezzar II attacked Jerusalem and enslaved the Jews.

[Jon_602]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKTt6Ogmxno

funny chaldos lol