Patriarch Emmanuel Delly Is A Hypocrite!

[CHALDEANELVIS]

Patriarch Emmanuel Delly said something that I can't get off my mind. This is what he wrote and can be verified in the NY Times:

Delly said that "even if a Muslim comes to me and said, 'I want to be Christian,' I would not accept. I would tell him to go back and try to be a good Muslim and God will accept you." Trying to convert Muslims to
Christianity, he added, "is not acceptable."

How can any man claiming to be picking up his cross and following Christ be a true believer in light of these words?! I would assume that if you are a Catholic, you yourself would not agree with that statement. Let's look at the fallacy of this statement with Scripture. I will make 3 points that really need to be examined.

1) First and foremost, Christ said in Matthew 28:19

And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in Heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

We see that Christ taught to preach the saving message of the Gospel unto all nations, yes, everyone, and it's a command. We don't ever see Christ saying preach to the potential Christians or elected people. Nor do we see Christ telling us to reject a person wanting to be a believer! This defiles the Word of God.

2) "be a good Muslim and God will accept you" So just as long as were good? Lets further examine this in light of Scripture:

Romans 3:10-18 "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one.Their throat is an open grave, they use their tongues to deceive.The venom of asps is under their lips. Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.Their feet are swift to shed blood, in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they do not know.There is no fear of God before their eyes"

No one is good, no, not a single person on earth. Why? Because we are all sinful beings and "For the wages of sin is death" We all deserve hell, every one of us. But Jesus came and bore our sins upon His precious body. God's wrath was intended for all mankind, but because of God's rich love and mercy, He sent forth his one and only Son to take the death for us, and then rose again. So my question Mr. Delly is, who's good? Muslim justification is by works. As long as their good works outweigh their bad, they will enter Heaven. We run into a problem:

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God-- not because of works, lest any man should boast."

Only by God's grace are we saved, not by works. It is a free gift from God, nothing we earned or deserve. There is nothing man can do to save himself apart from God, nothing. Even if you fed the entire world, built homeless shelters all across the world, was recognized and was awarded a noble prize and forever go down in history as the greatest man (or woman) on earth, you will still die in your sins and go to Hell if you did not do it in the name of Jesus. Yes, it is not by works God said, so nobody should boast about what they do. So then I have to ask Mr. Delly, in light of what I said, what happens to this Muslim that you rejected?

3) To touch on the "and God will accept you" issue, I invite you to look at a couple passages.

John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him"

Nobody comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ. Look at what Christ says after: "If you had known me, you would have known my Father also" How can the Muslim be saved if Delly is turning them away? If Jesus meant what He said (which of course He did) then this Muslim would never have had the chance to meet Jesus nor the Father because of a man who rejected them!

We read:

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

We see here that there is salvation in nobody else except through Jesus and that nobody can come to God except through Jesus. Nobody. The Bible makes it very clear. For Delly to claim to be a God fearing, Jesus follower, he would need to really question his theology, and maybe even his salvation. I *will never turn down anyone that wants to be a believer! There is tremendous rejoice and applause in Heaven when a person accepts Christ.

To conclude, We must preach the Gospel (The Good News) unto all the parts of the earth, the great commision that was commanded by God, your creator, Himself. There is no one good, no, not one. There is no salvation for anyone outside of Christ. No where does God say in the entire Bible, all 66 books, will He accept a person not washed in the Blood of the Perfect Lamb.

God Bless,
Elvis

[Teffo]

calling a church official of any religion a hypacrite is wrong...i take great offense to your title.

[CHALDEANELVIS]

calling a church official of any religion a hypacrite is wrong...i take great offense to your title.

Then let me ask you a question. Would you take more offense if I denounced a Church official or God Himself? Who is this Church official that he is higher than any one of us for you to worry? What he wrote is utter blasphemy. I don't care if it was the Pope himself, nobody has authority over God and nobody makes up there own laws contrary to God, your creator.

Romans 2:11 "There is no favortism in God"

And even these people you may exalt above others, God does not.

Luke 17:10 "So you also, when you have done all that is commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.'"

Teffo, God does not look at anyone higher than another. Rather, God looks at the fruits of His believers. Even when a person has preached to every person on earth and (somehow) followed all 10 commandments perfect, he is still to say to himself "I am an unworthy slave just doing what I am commanded"

You may not like it, but it's in the Bible. Me, Ojeen, Rudy, and John_24 study the Bible and are very adamant believers.

God Bless,
Elvis

[proudchaldean]

lets see if u would have the balls to try to convert muslims in Iraq

[CHALDEANELVIS]

lets see if u would have the balls to try to convert muslims in Iraq

You missed the point. Emmanual Delly was not afraid, worried, or concerned about his safety. What he was concerned with was *"even if a Muslim comes to me and said, 'I want to be Christian,' I would not accept. Christianity, he added, "is not acceptable."

Delly is saying that it's not acceptable. Nothing to do with "having balls" And actually, if you read the entire article, there are 6 or 7 Evangelical Churches being built in Iraq and none of them have been attacked. The Muslims there are actually really cool with the people and have befriended most of them. If you provide me your email address, I will send you the entire artice. It's not that long. Or you can just go on the web and go to NY Times and read it on there. Delly is deliberatley, out of his own will, rejecting them. By the way, I would go to Iraq and preach the word of God to the Muslims if I had to.

"If God is for us, who can be against us?"
"He that is in you is greater than he that is in the world"


God Bless,
Elvis

[BONO]

U need to understand why he was saying that. *I believe you are missing part of the story. *There was an article where some christain priests were paying muslims to convert to christains. *So The Patriark said what he said. *he is trying to say that he doesn't want to force people to convert to a different relegion...

[GreenEyeZchal705]

I wont comment unless i see the entire article. I have a feeling you might be taking that part out of context.

[CHALDEANELVIS]

THE ENTIRE ARTICLE FOR THOSE WHO THINK I AM TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT.




>June 23, 2005
>
>By:
>Caryle Murphy
>Washington Post
>
>
>
>BAGHDAD,
>
>
> *With arms outstretched, the congregation at National Evangelical
>Baptist Church belted out a praise hymn backed up by drums, electric
>guitar and keyboard. In the corner, slide images of Jesus filled a large
>screen. A simple white cross of wood adorned the stage, and worshipers
>sprinkled the pastor's Bible-based sermon with approving shouts of
>"Ameen!"
>
>National is Iraq's first Baptist congregation and one of at least seven
>new Christian evangelical churches established in Baghdad in the past
>two years. Its Sunday afternoon service, in a building behind a house on
>a quiet street, draws a couple of hundred worshipers who like the lively
>music and focus on the Bible.
>
>"I'm thirsty for this kind of church," Suhaila Tawfik, a veterinarian
>who was raised Catholic, said at a recent service. "I want to go deep in
>understanding the Bible."
>
>Tawfik is not alone. The U.S.-led toppling of Saddam Hussein, who
>limited the establishment of new denominations, has altered the
>religious landscape of predominantly Muslim Iraq. A newly energized
>Christian evangelical activism here, supported by Western and other
>foreign evangelicals, is now challenging the dominance of Iraq's
>long-established Christian denominations and drawing complaints from
>Muslim and Christian religious leaders about a threat to the status quo.
>
>The evangelicals' numbers are not large -- perhaps a few thousand -- in
>the context of Iraq's estimated 800,000 Christians. But they are
>emerging at a time when the country's traditional churches have lost
>their privileged Hussein-era status and have experienced massive
>depletions of their flocks because of decades-long emigration. Now,
>traditional church leaders see the new evangelical churches filling up,
>not so much with Muslim converts but with Christians like Tawfik seeking
>a new kind of worship experience.
>
>"The way the preachers arrived here . . . with soldiers . . . was not a
>good thing," said Baghdad's Roman Catholic archbishop, Jean Sleiman. "I
>think they had the intention that they could convert Muslims, though
>Christians didn't do it here for 2,000 years."
>
>"In the end," Sleiman said, "they are seducing Christians from other
>churches."
>
>Iraq's new churches are part of Christian evangelicalism's growing
>presence in several Middle Eastern countries, experts say. In
>neighboring Jordan, for example, "the indigenous evangelical presence is
>growing and thriving," said Todd M. Johnson, a scholar of global
>Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Massachusetts.
>
>Nabeeh Abbassi, president of the Jordan Baptist Convention, said in an
>interview in Amman that there are about 10,000 evangelicals worshiping
>at 50 churches in Jordan. They include 20 Baptist churches with a
>combined regular Sunday attendance of 5,000, he added. The organization
>also operates the Baptist School of Amman, where 40 percent of the
>student body is Muslim.
>
>While most evangelicals in Jordan come from traditional Christian
>denominations, Abbassi said, "we're seeing more and more Muslim
>conversions, not less than 500 a year" over the past 10 years.
>
>Iraq's Christian population has been organized for centuries into
>denominations such as Chaldean Catholicism and Roman Catholicism. While
>Hussein's secular regime allowed freedom of worship, it limited new
>denominations, particularly if backed by Western churches.
>
>During the U.S.-led invasion in 2003, American evangelicals made no
>secret of their desire to follow the troops. Samaritan's Purse, the
>global relief organization led by the Rev. Franklin Graham -- who has
>called Islam an "evil and wicked" religion -- and the International
>Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention, the country's largest
>Protestant denomination, were among those that mobilized missionaries
>and relief supplies.
>
>Soon after Hussein's fall, they entered the country, saying their prime
>task was to provide Iraqis with humanitarian aid. But their strong
>emphasis on sharing their faith raised concerns among Muslims and some
>Christians that they would openly proselytize.
>
>Then the security environment deteriorated in Iraq -- four Southern
>Baptist missionaries were killed, Westerners were kidnapped and at least
>21 churches were bombed -- forcing most foreign evangelicals to flee.
>But Iraqi evangelicals remain.
>
>"For Christians, it's now democratic," said Nabil A. Sara, 60, the
>pastor at National Evangelical Baptist. "It's not like before. There is
>freedom now. Nobody can say, 'Why do you start a new church?' "
>
>Some church leaders, however, are asking that very question.
>
>"Evangelicals come here and I would like to ask: Why do you come here?
>For what reason?" said Patriarch Emmanuel Delly, head of the Eastern
>rite Chaldean Catholic Church, Iraq's largest Christian community.
>
>In interviews, Delly and Sleiman were torn between their belief in
>religious freedom and the threat they see from the new evangelicalism.
>They also expressed anger and resentment at what they perceive as the
>evangelicals' assumption that members of old-line denominations are not
>true Christians.
>
>"If we are not Christians, you should tell us so we will find the right
>path," Delly said sarcastically. "I'm not against the evangelicals. If
>they go to an atheist country to promote Christ, we would help them
>ourselves."
>
>Sleiman charged that the new churches were sowing "a new division" among
>Christians because "churches here mean a big community with tradition,
>language and culture, not simply a building with some people worshiping.
>If you want to help Christians here, help through the churches [already]
>here."
>
>Still, the Roman Catholic prelate said he could not oppose the
>evangelicals because "we ask for freedom of conscience." He also said he
>respected how they appear "ready to die" for their beliefs. "Sometimes
>I'm telling myself they are more zealous than me, and we can profit from
>this positive dimension of their mission."
>
>Some Iraqi Christians expressed fear that the evangelicals would
>undermine Christian-Muslim harmony here, which rests on a long-standing,
>tacit agreement not to proselytize each other. "There is an informal
>agreement that says we have nothing to do with your religion and faith,"
>said Yonadam Kanna, one of six Christians elected to Iraq's parliament.
>"We are brothers but we don't interfere in your religion."
>
>Delly said that "even if a Muslim comes to me and said, 'I want to be
>Christian,' I would not accept. I would tell him to go back and try to
>be a good Muslim and God will accept you." Trying to convert Muslims to
>Christianity, he added, "is not acceptable."
>
>Sheik Fatih Kashif Ghitaa, a prominent Shiite Muslim leader in Baghdad,
>was among those who expressed alarm at the postwar influx of foreign
>missionaries. In a recent interview, he said he feared that Muslims
>misunderstand why many Christians talk about their faith.
>
>"They have to talk about Jesus and what Jesus has done. This is one of
>the principles of believing in Christianity," said Ghitaa. "But the
>problem is that the others don't understand it, they think these people
>are coming to convert them."
>
>Robert Fetherlin, vice president for international ministries at
>Colorado-based Christian and Missionary Alliance, which supports one of
>the new Baghdad evangelical churches, defended his denomination's
>overseas work.
>
>"We're not trying to coerce people to follow Christ," he said. "But we
>want to at least communicate to people who He is. We feel very
>encouraged by the possibility for people in Iraq to have the freedom to
>make choices about what belief system they want to buy into."
>
>Sara said that if Muslims approach him with "questions about Jesus and
>about the Bible," he responds. But the white-haired pastor said there
>was plenty of evangelizing to be done among Christians because, in his
>view, many do not really know Jesus. "They know [Him] just in name," he
>said, adding that they need a better understanding of "why He died for
>them."
>
>His church appeals to dissatisfied Christians, he said, adding, "If you
>go to a Catholic church, for example, there is no Bible in the church,
>there is no preaching, and just a little singing."
>
>National congregant Zeena Woodman, 30, who was raised in the Syrian
>Orthodox Church, agreed. "Praising Jesus Christ in this church is not as
>traditional as other churches," she said. "It's much more interesting
>here."
>
>Sara, a former Presbyterian who started an underground evangelical
>church in his home after having a born-again experience, began working
>openly during the U.S. occupation. In January 2004, he was ordained
>pastor of his church in a ceremony attended by more than 20 Baptist
>pastors and deacons from Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and the United States.
>Baptist communities in these countries financially support National
>Evangelical, Sara said.
>
>The church's name and a white cross are visible from the street. The
>pastor said that no one has threatened the church and that it has good
>relations with its Muslim neighbors.
>
>In fact, said Sara, "Muslims across the street came and asked us to pray
>for their mother."

[Rita]

Ok before you call someone a hypocrite, get some facts and find some research other than 1 source. Bono is correct. He meant that it was unacceptable 2 pay off Muslims to be Christian. He DID say it would be great if we can get Muslims to change to Christianity. Also, Greeneyes is correct... it was out of context.

There is an article about him in the Chaldean News. He states the the NY Times twisted everything he said and made it clear what he truly meant and what he actually said... without NY Times dismissing what he said in between his comment.

Please refer to the latest Chaldean News article. Also, if you are so holy as you claim... you wouldn't say such things about someone of his stature.

[CHALDEANELVIS]

U need to understand why he was saying that. *I believe you are missing part of the story. *There was an article where some christain priests were paying muslims to convert to christains. *So The Patriark said what he said. *he is trying to say that he doesn't want to force people to convert to a different relegion...

Listen guys, please, lets not try to justify this. The man said it very plain and clear. The words scream out for themselves. But for the sake of argument, I am going to disect it for you guys because I love you guys so much.

Delly said that "even if a Muslim comes to me and said, 'I want to be Christian,' I would not accept. I would tell him to go back and try to be a good Muslim and God will accept you." Trying to convert Muslims to
Christianity, he added, "is not acceptable."

"even if a Muslim comes to me" This means, that if a Muslim walks up to him, approaches him, calls him, or any other form of communication where he and the muslim are able to exchange words.

"and said" Meaning that the Muslim is speaking

"I want to be a Christian" The muslim is saying, Hey Delly, I want to be washed in the Blood of the Perfect Lamb so that I can get into Heaven. I want to pick up my cross and follow Jesus all the way to Calvary.

"I would not accept" Delly says, no, I will not allow you to do such, it's unacceptable, I will not accept, I wont allow it, I won't do it

"I would tell him to go back and try to be a good Muslim and God will accept you" * * *Basically, Delly would tell him, no, I will not teach you how to follow Christ because all you have to do is be a "good" Muslim and God will accept you. I won't even begin to comment on this. Read my opening statement, it speaks very boldly on this.

"Trying to convert Muslims to Christianity, he added, "is not acceptable."
Basically, you will be accepted by God for being a "good" Muslim and will go to Heaven and so there is no point in conversion. It is unacceptable converting a Muslim to Christianity.

Unacceptable: Websters Dictionary: not acceptable : not pleasing or welcome

So there you have it. A complete break down of Dellys words. Even though it was clearer than day, I guess sometimes people wear their shades even indoors.

God Bless,
Elvis

[Rita]

Elvis, go back and read my post. You will notice that they left out a few things he said. Also, keep in mind that the man does not speak perfect English.

[Teffo]

please stop trying to justify your cult...STOP DRINKING THE PUNCH ELVIS!!!

[Rita]

LOL @ Teffo

[CHALDEANELVIS]

please stop trying to justify your cult...STOP DRINKING THE PUNCH ELVIS!!!

You must first define a cult before you call someone a cult. Secondly, please forward me the article, if it exists, that Delly was miquoted by the NY Times.
Third, please refute my very first presentation.

You can't get around the fact that Delly believes that if a Muslim is good, he will go to heaven, period. Nothing more can be said. Please, if you are going ot respond, respond to the Scripture support I give of this.

God Bless,
Elvis

[Teffo]

please direct your comments to specific ppl instead of quoting me and then asking questions to others...and why are you always attacking ppl with questions and then before they can answer you have a chunk of writing from the bibl ethat you copy and paste and put on here...

raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar me like tiger....see i can drink punch to elvis

[Rita]

I'm sure you can get hold of the Chaldean News. You can find it in some stores, gas stations, etc. You can also subscribe to the issues. Many people have never subscribed but continue to get the papers each month. If you really have a hard time getting to this article, I will scan it 4 u.

[renee]

let's all acknowledge the fact that elvis (and rudy, ojeen, etc) are fundamentalist christians who do not accept any authority other than the bible.

they are protestants who have rejected the orthodox (and notice i wrote orthodox with a small 'o' meaning the Catholic and Orthodox) christian churches.

They, like mormons and jehovah's witnesses are best ignored

[Teffo]

im giving you karma for that comment renee lol!

[maxpower]

please direct your comments to specific ppl instead of quoting me and then asking questions to others...and why are you always attacking ppl with questions and then before they can answer you have a chunk of writing from the bibl ethat you copy and paste and put on here...

raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar me like tiger....see i can drink punch to elvis

lol... that turned me on teffo, lol... Rrrrr i'll raaaar u like a tiger, haha... funny

[renee]

im giving you karma for that comment renee lol!

god will bless both of us teffo. *:angel: *:angel:

[Rita]

I gave u +karma also Teffo.

[ojeen1981]

let's all acknowledge the fact that elvis (and rudy, ojeen, etc) are fundamentalist christians who do not accept any authority other than the bible.

they are protestants who have rejected the orthodox (and notice i wrote orthodox with a small 'o' meaning the Catholic and Orthodox) christian churches.

They, like mormons and jehovah's witnesses are best ignored

Since that included my name, dear renee, I would like everyone in here to acknowledge something about u as well. *First off, I can tell that u have not read anything I posted, because if u did than u would have realized that I have an objective statement about everything, I always give both sides of the argument. *I am sorry to offend u that I am a follower of Christ and the Bible, something u perhaps don’t understand. *Secondly, if u did actually read my post than u seem to lack the intellectual capacity to understand them, in this light, *I would be more than happy to explain them to u in a more primitive language. Thirdly, dear ohhh beloved renee, all you are is a confused woman who is a product of its up brining and you got a huge psychological problem, it makes sense that u have a “PHD” in psychology, but u have failed to solve your own problems. *I am so sorry to say this but you are very insecure woman and u hate the fact that anything that has testicles and a brain intimidates u and is your worst night mare. *Renee, with all due respect to the beloved and humble people of this site, you don’t have any idea what a fundamental Christian is (they are the people that I cant stand!!!) and Renee u have no idea and are sooo ignorant of the history of the church that its ridicules.....plz and I urge u PLZ do some research and read allot before u post such things that are way over your head…take care and I cant wait the nasty things u’ll respond with, cause that’s all your good for..peeeeeace

[Teffo]

wow ojeen....not cool! *renee is one of the most intelligent ppl on this board...and i'm sorry that you can't see that...it must be your ego and arogance blocking it...

and as you say that she doesn't read her posts...you obviously don;t read hers:)

thank you come again!

and max....RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR! *TIGER GO RAAAAAAAAAAAAR! (as she tips a glass of punch lol)

[CHALDEANELVIS]

let's all acknowledge the fact that elvis (and rudy, ojeen, etc) are fundamentalist christians who do not accept any authority other than the bible.

they are protestants who have rejected the orthodox (and notice i wrote orthodox with a small 'o' meaning the Catholic and Orthodox) christian churches.

They, like mormons and jehovah's witnesses are best ignored


Beautiful ad-hominem tactics, it's definetly a winner amongst people who seek answers. Unfortunately, I will not result to such slander and mischief.

Renee, what other authority is there besides the Bible? Why can't you understand that there is only one book ever written in the history of mankind that has recorded God's word, and we are so fortunate to have such easy access to, yet people deny and result to tradition of men?

Mark 7:7-8 "'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.' *You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men."

Hold fast the word of God Renee, not the traditions of Men.

"For the word of God is alive and pierces the soul sharper than any two-edged sword" (Heb. 4:12)

By the way, I wouldn't compare us with mormon and jehovas. It would make no sense:

Jehovas deny the trinity, resurrection, and diety of Christ. They believe Christ was Michael the arch angel. They believe only 144,000 will make it to Heaven

Mormons believe Jesus was Satans brother and that men can become gods of their own on earth. They of course deny the trinity, resurrection of Christ, and follow their Book of Mormons, a 216lb golden book which was handed down to them by an angel of light named Nephi

Jehovas don't use the Bible, they use the Watchtower
Mormons dont use the Bible, they use the Book of Mormons

Renee, please tell me where you stand with God

[ojeen1981]

Renee, i am not a protestant, nor a catholic, nor an orthodox, nor a Baptists...i enjoy attending all these churches...I love something about all of them...you are a very closed minded person!!!!!

[Randel]

wow ojeen....not cool! *renee is one of the most intelligent ppl on this board...and i'm sorry that you can't see that...it must be your ego and arogance blocking it...

and as you say that she doesn't read her posts...you obviously don;t read hers:)

thank you come again!

and max....RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR! *TIGER GO RAAAAAAAAAAAAR! (as she tips a glass of punch lol)

she did say some mean stuff to him though

[Teffo]

randel...if she did i didn't see it in that comment...but i'll just zip my mouth shut...i think ppl are just too quick to insult renee bc she is open and honest and not afraid to speak her mind...

so ojeen if you don;t mind me asking...what do you consider yourself? *nondenominational?

[ojeen1981]

thank u randal..and teffo..i did not say anything to her till she keeps antagonizing me...i dont say things unless am first perpetuated to do so..thanks teffo and am sorry if i offended u..

[Rita]

it's nobody's business 2 wonder about anyone's religion. Stay within the topic.

[Randel]

randel...if she did i didn't see it in that comment...but i'll just zip my mouth shut...i think ppl are just too quick to insult renee bc she is open and honest and not afraid to speak her mind...

so ojeen if you don;t mind me asking...what do you consider yourself? *nondenominational?

she basically said that since he uses the bible for debating purposes, his points are invalid. And she also said that about rudy, who is probably the nicest person on the site. So its mean to be mean to the nicest person on the site.

[Teffo]

yea, rudy is nice...and ojeen i'm not taking offense to your posts...it's just renee is a very intelligent person as are others here...maybe we should get back on topic and leave these comments to pm's

[ojeen1981]

randel...if she did i didn't see it in that comment...but i'll just zip my mouth shut...i think ppl are just too quick to insult renee bc she is open and honest and not afraid to speak her mind...

so ojeen if you don;t mind me asking...what do you consider yourself? *nondenominational?

she basically said that since he uses the bible for debating purposes, his points are invalid. And she also said that about rudy, who is probably the nicest person on the site. So its mean to be mean to the nicest person on the site.


wow man..i had to check your age like 10 times, i cant belive you are this mature dude..God bless u bro...

[ojeen1981]

randel...if she did i didn't see it in that comment...but i'll just zip my mouth shut...i think ppl are just too quick to insult renee bc she is open and honest and not afraid to speak her mind...

so ojeen if you don;t mind me asking...what do you consider yourself? *nondenominational?

You did not offend me, its all good

In regards to your question, I am a Marxists when it comes to established religion, I don’t like to abide by any name...because of my upbringing during the 1st gulf war, my family and I read the word of God everyday, the Gospel and the words of Jesus was the only that saved my *life, and is the only thing that I love reading till this day. *When I study church history, its unfortunate to see how they all drifted away from Biblical teachings, ALL OF THEM!!! So am just a Follower of Jesus Christ and the Bible…

[renee]

let's all acknowledge the fact that elvis (and rudy, ojeen, etc) are fundamentalist christians who do not accept any authority other than the bible.

they are protestants who have rejected the orthodox (and notice i wrote orthodox with a small 'o' meaning the Catholic and Orthodox) christian churches.

They, like mormons and jehovah's witnesses are best ignored

Since that included my name, dear renee, I would like everyone in here to acknowledge something about u as well. *First off, I can tell that u have not read anything I posted, because if u did than u would have realized that I have an objective statement about everything, I always give both sides of the argument. *I am sorry to offend u that I am a follower of Christ and the Bible, something u perhaps don’t understand. *Secondly, if u did actually read my post than u seem to lack the intellectual capacity to understand them, in this light, *I would be more than happy to explain them to u in a more primitive language. Thirdly, dear ohhh beloved renee, all you are is a confused woman who is a product of its up brining and you got a huge psychological problem, it makes sense that u have a “PHD” in psychology, but u have failed to solve your own problems. *I am so sorry to say this but you are very insecure woman and u hate the fact that anything that has testicles and a brain intimidates u and is your worst night mare. *Renee, with all due respect to the beloved and humble people of this site, you don’t have any idea what a fundamental Christian is (they are the people that I cant stand!!!) and Renee u have no idea and are sooo ignorant of the history of the church that its ridicules.....plz and I urge u PLZ do some research and read allot before u post such things that are way over your head…take care and I cant wait the nasty things u’ll respond with, cause that’s all your good for..peeeeeace

same response that i gave to elvis in another *thread:


you turn ur bible to Romans 3:28, and then turn it *to James 2:18. *It is a clear contradiction. Since god is perfect she could not have contradicted herself. If the bible contradicts itself, it cannot have been written by god. QED


there's my research

[CHALDEANELVIS]

I think a major problem is that people are slapping labels on each other, not even thinking twice about their statement of faith. I am also astonished that no scriptural evidence has ever been once brought up to refute any of mine, ojeens, rudy, or John_24 comments.

Guys, please understand, we worship Jesus Christ, our Savior, our God, our LORD, my best friend, my Father, the One I live just to die for!

All of this can be easy overlooked when you slap a protestant label on it. All of a sudden your passionate persuit for righteousness and the Blood of the Lamb in which we bathe in no longer matters, because we are not Catholic.

If you guys want to call us a cult, please identify a cult to us. My eager expectation is that all come to know the saving message of Gospel. Jesus was neither protestant nor catholic, neither were the disciples or the apostles. If you guys want to know what I follow, I follow the teachings of Jesus in the Bible. I am a student of Christ. I do not practice what goes beyond Biblical truth. I can give amazing claim and evidence to this, that the Bible is all a person needs to run their life and the statute of how a Church should be run.

Please, enough ad-hominem attacks.

Elvis

[renee]

Renee, please tell me where you stand with God

We are on excellent terms. Thanks for asking.

Oh, she told me to tell u that u need to confess to a priest and come back into the one true church. *:no no:

[Teffo]

hey i have an idea...stop quoting the bible verbatum and actually translate it into your own words...you know...that's what intelligent ppl do...they take an idea or fact and translate it into what it means to them...instead of being brainwashed and repeating what a book or a person tells you!

[ojeen1981]

Renee, please tell me where you stand with God

We are on excellent terms. Thanks for asking.

Oh, she told me to tell u that u need to confess to a priest and come back into the one true church. *:no no:

i dont have enough respect for u to respond to your question that was taken from a site, a question that is easily answered. *so lets make a pact...u dont ever say my name in anything u have to say and i will not say your name..and i will ignore all the posts u put up since u ignore all mine..lets both abide by this and i say good day to u ma'am...peeeeace

[CHALDEANELVIS]

let's all acknowledge the fact that elvis (and rudy, ojeen, etc) are fundamentalist christians who do not accept any authority other than the bible.

they are protestants who have rejected the orthodox (and notice i wrote orthodox with a small 'o' meaning the Catholic and Orthodox) christian churches.

They, like mormons and jehovah's witnesses are best ignored

Since that included my name, dear renee, I would like everyone in here to acknowledge something about u as well. *First off, I can tell that u have not read anything I posted, because if u did than u would have realized that I have an objective statement about everything, I always give both sides of the argument. *I am sorry to offend u that I am a follower of Christ and the Bible, something u perhaps don’t understand. *Secondly, if u did actually read my post than u seem to lack the intellectual capacity to understand them, in this light, *I would be more than happy to explain them to u in a more primitive language. Thirdly, dear ohhh beloved renee, all you are is a confused woman who is a product of its up brining and you got a huge psychological problem, it makes sense that u have a “PHD” in psychology, but u have failed to solve your own problems. *I am so sorry to say this but you are very insecure woman and u hate the fact that anything that has testicles and a brain intimidates u and is your worst night mare. *Renee, with all due respect to the beloved and humble people of this site, you don’t have any idea what a fundamental Christian is (they are the people that I cant stand!!!) and Renee u have no idea and are sooo ignorant of the history of the church that its ridicules.....plz and I urge u PLZ do some research and read allot before u post such things that are way over your head…take care and I cant wait the nasty things u’ll respond with, cause that’s all your good for..peeeeeace

same response that i gave to elvis in another *thread:


you turn ur bible to Romans 3:28, and then turn it *to James 2:18. *It is a clear contradiction. Since god is perfect she could not have contradicted herself. If the bible contradicts itself, it cannot have been written by god. QED


there's my research

Renee, please tell me how you believe in God in light of this comment?

Renee, a very dangerous and lethal mistake you are making is knit picking verses and saying the Bible contradicts each other. I will answer this so called contradiction.

First of all, you need to know who the letter is written to and why. I assume you have never read the Bible because this is a very simple "contradiction"

Romans 3:28 "For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law"

James 2:18 "But some one will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith"

Before I show you the fallacy of your argument, lets look at some verses:

Titus 3:5 "he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life."

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God-- *not because of works, lest any man should boast"

Now, to answer your claim. Do you see that when Paul wrote to Titus, to Rome and to Ephesus, he said "By Grace, not by works?"

But we see in James letter that it's not by faith alone. James was addressing this to believers who were already saved by Christ, but had no works. Works as in, preaching, teaching, bearing good fruits. Read 1 Corinthians 3:15, you see hear that the works James speaks of is the works that a Christian should carry out as a follower of Christ, for those works will be tossed in the fire to see if they were good.

You must understand to whom it is written to, why, the setting, etc. I can go over every single one of your claims of contradictions. Its so easy to pick verses like you did on a website and then say the Bible was written by men, yet so hard to examine for yourself. Renee, face it, the Bible was written by God, He is the author.

[Teffo]

so what you're saying is that the bible contradicts itself elvis?

















lmaoooo...i crack myself up! *more punch anyone?

[renee]

let's all acknowledge the fact that elvis (and rudy, ojeen, etc) are fundamentalist christians who do not accept any authority other than the bible.

they are protestants who have rejected the orthodox (and notice i wrote orthodox with a small 'o' meaning the Catholic and Orthodox) christian churches.

They, like mormons and jehovah's witnesses are best ignored

Since that included my name, dear renee, I would like everyone in here to acknowledge something about u as well. *First off, I can tell that u have not read anything I posted, because if u did than u would have realized that I have an objective statement about everything, I always give both sides of the argument. *I am sorry to offend u that I am a follower of Christ and the Bible, something u perhaps don’t understand. *Secondly, if u did actually read my post than u seem to lack the intellectual capacity to understand them, in this light, *I would be more than happy to explain them to u in a more primitive language. Thirdly, dear ohhh beloved renee, all you are is a confused woman who is a product of its up brining and you got a huge psychological problem, it makes sense that u have a “PHD” in psychology, but u have failed to solve your own problems. *I am so sorry to say this but you are very insecure woman and u hate the fact that anything that has testicles and a brain intimidates u and is your worst night mare. *Renee, with all due respect to the beloved and humble people of this site, you don’t have any idea what a fundamental Christian is (they are the people that I cant stand!!!) and Renee u have no idea and are sooo ignorant of the history of the church that its ridicules.....plz and I urge u PLZ do some research and read allot before u post such things that are way over your head…take care and I cant wait the nasty things u’ll respond with, cause that’s all your good for..peeeeeace

same response that i gave to elvis in another *thread:


you turn ur bible to Romans 3:28, and then turn it *to James 2:18. *It is a clear contradiction. Since god is perfect she could not have contradicted herself. If the bible contradicts itself, it cannot have been written by god. QED


there's my research

Renee, please tell me how you believe in God in light of this comment?

Renee, a very dangerous and lethal mistake you are making is knit picking verses and saying the Bible contradicts each other. I will answer this so called contradiction.

First of all, you need to know who the letter is written to and why. I assume you have never read the Bible because this is a very simple "contradiction"

Romans 3:28 "For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law"

James 2:18 "But some one will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith"

Before I show you the fallacy of your argument, lets look at some verses:

Titus 3:5 "he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life."

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God-- *not because of works, lest any man should boast"

Now, to answer your claim. Do you see that when Paul wrote to Titus, to Rome and to Ephesus, he said "By Grace, not by works?"

But we see in James letter that it's not by faith alone. James was addressing this to believers who were already saved by Christ, but had no works. Works as in, preaching, teaching, bearing good fruits. Read 1 Corinthians 3:15, you see hear that the works James speaks of is the works that a Christian should carry out as a follower of Christ, for those works will be tossed in the fire to see if they were good.

You must understand to whom it is written to, why, the setting, etc. I can go over every single one of your claims of contradictions. Its so easy to pick verses like you did on a website and then say the Bible was written by men, yet so hard to examine for yourself. Renee, face it, the Bible was written by God, He is the author.

You are interpreting the Bible. God is the perfect being. A perfect being cannot be improved upon. If it is written by a perfect being it must be taken at face value. If it is taken at face value, it is a contradiction. And there are many. If it were written by god, how dare you interpret her words?

[renee]

Renee, please tell me where you stand with God

We are on excellent terms. Thanks for asking.

Oh, she told me to tell u that u need to confess to a priest and come back into the one true church. *:no no:

i dont have enough respect for u to respond to your question that was taken from a site, a question that is easily answered. *so lets make a pact...u dont ever say my name in anything u have to say and i will not say your name..and i will ignore all the posts u put up since u ignore all mine..lets both abide by this and i say good day to u ma'am...peeeeaceojeen1981
ojeen1981
ojeen1981 ojeen1981 ojeen1981 ojeen1981 ojeen1981 ojeen1981

[ojeen1981]

Renee, please tell me where you stand with God

We are on excellent terms. Thanks for asking.

Oh, she told me to tell u that u need to confess to a priest and come back into the one true church. *:no no:

i dont have enough respect for u to respond to your question that was taken from a site, a question that is easily answered. *so lets make a pact...u dont ever say my name in anything u have to say and i will not say your name..and i will ignore all the posts u put up since u ignore all mine..lets both abide by this and i say good day to u ma'am...peeeeaceojeen1981
ojeen1981
ojeen1981 ojeen1981 ojeen1981 ojeen1981 ojeen1981 ojeen1981

lolollol
i love u too rene.....i hope people in this site see the child acts your doing...

[CHALDEANELVIS]

You are interpreting the Bible. God is the perfect being. A perfect being cannot be improved upon. If it is written by a perfect being it must be taken at face value. If it is taken at face value, it is a contradiction. And there are many. If it were written by god, how dare you interpret her words?


How do you call common sense interpreting the Bible? James was writing to believers that lacked work, he told them to step it up. Where is the interpretation? It's a given. But to you its an interpretation because you have never read the Bible and refuse to lose. You can not give me a single contradiction in the Bible that I can not explain, they don't exist. Who is your authority if not the Bible? Renee, knowledge puffs, but wisdom withstands. I gave you a perfect exegetical interpretation but you don't believe because you refuse to be wrong. For this reason, I leave on the same note as Ojeen, only I have some scripture that you need to read:

Titus 3:10 "As for a man who is factious, after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned"

Ephesians 5:6 "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. *Therefore do not associate with them"

2 Timothy 4:3-5 " For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths"

James 1:22-27 "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. *For if any one is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who observes his natural face in a mirror; *for he observes himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. *But he who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer that forgets but a doer that acts, he shall be blessed in his doing. *If any one thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this man's religion is vain."

Jude 1:16 "These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own passions, loud-mouthed boasters, flattering people to gain advantage. *But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; *they said to you, "In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions."


Renee, it was different talking to you. I will keep you in prayer that truth may unlock the chains of pride bestowed in your heart.

In Jesus might name,
Elvis