An email from Father Frank

[John_5_24]

I have not been on this forum very long, but I have been able to enjoy the discussion on many topics. *There is something on this board that is rather disturbing to me. *The number of professing Catholics that either question, or outright deny the deity of Christ and the source or infallibility of Scripture. *It grieves my heart to see such statements posted on this sight from people who I am certain consider themselves strong in the faith. *

Now, I am not Catholic, but I know that even though I disagree with the Catholic Church, I also agree with the Catholic Church on many of these essentials. *We have not been arguing about the finer differences between the Catholic and Protestant churches other than Renee's one post about sola fide. *The discussions we have been having are central to the issue of whether you are a Christian.

Because you completely discredit anything that several of us say on these boards, I have appealed to Father Frank, someone that I believe most of you know and respect. *I emailed him informing him of some of the discussions that have been had here on this board. *Namely, the questioning of the deity of Christ and the questioning of the Scriptures. *I am going to post his response here.

I ASK THAT ANY OF YOU WHO ARE PROFESSING CATHOLICS WHO DO NOT BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS GOD, OR THAT THE SCRIPTURES ARE NOT THE WORD OF GOD, PLEASE CALL HIM. *I AM ALSO AVAILABLE TO SPEAK WITH ANY OF YOU. *

Email from Father Frank:

Grace and peace in our Lord

It is with great sadness that I received your e-mail. *This is truly a
distressing scene when professed Christians (Catholic or non-Catholic) make
such horrible proclamations on our Lord or the Scriptures. *Though I cannot
speak on behalf of the other Chaldean Catholic Priests, I can definitely say
that when I was at Mother of God Church and now here at St. Thomas, the
divinity of Christ is brought up frequently and especially lately I am
imprinting upon the listeners. *Our various other programs, such as
Catechism, First Communion and the such, do the same. *I made sure of that!
Anywho, whatever the situation is, these people are not getting the message.
Please have them contact me whether by email or phone (248-788-2460). *This
is a grave matter that needs an immediate response. *Please, if need be,
forward this email to them if necessary. *

Thanks and may God bless you.

FF

P.S. It gives me great pleasure see Christians working for Christ instead of
against each other. *This is the message of our Lord. *Thanks.

------

Father Frank's email is abounajr@yahoo.com

PLEASE MAKE USE OF HIM.

May God Bless you all.

[BONO]

very nice John.... :)

a lot of people and sometimes including myself don't believe unless we see in our eyes.

The Bible is truly the word of the Lord Jesus Christ, and if we don't believe in it, there is no point in us going to church, since we read from the word of the lord.

[John_5_24]

Amen Bono. *I felt the need to appeal to Father Frank, even though I am not Catholic in hopes that those on this board who profess to be Catholics would see that even according to the Catholic Church I am speaking truth.

Now for those of you who don't profess to be Catholics, obviously, this is not meant for you, but I am certain that both Father Frank and myself would still be happy to talk to you.

[CHALDEANELVIS]

I want to point this out to the Catholic believers who read this post. Please don't post your opinions or objections on here, for they will not be answered. I'm not at all being rude, but the sole purpose for this topic is to help Catholics with uncatholic claims. You are going to find that help with Father Frank. He invites anyone to call him or email him. I believe all of the skeptic claims on here have been thoughourly answered. Maybe it was authoritative positions answering these questions that lead to arguments and debates, or maybe some people just like to debate.

Whatever the reasons are, you can go to a very well respected priest for answers.

The Bible makes it very clear, we can only proclaim the message of Christ. It is not our job to convince anyone. Only God can remove that vail from your eyes. Everyone is born blind until God shows her mercy and grace reveals Himself to you. The only advice I can offer now is to get on your knees and with a sincere heart, as God to reveal Himself to you. Ask Him in your heart to come into your life.

Charles Spurgeon, a very, very well known scholar once said: "A man can only lead one to Calvary, no further"

God Bless all those who seek diligently, for they shall find truth.

-Elvis

[CHALDEANELVIS]

excuse me for the "her" in that reply. I really don't know how it got there lol

[renee]

excuse me for the "her" in that reply. I really don't know how it got there lol

Dumb luck is my guess.

[Rita]

I would also like to see the email you sent to Father Frank. Does he seem disturbed that we ask such questions about the Bible? If so, why? It is not a sin to believe in the Bible and ask questions and wonder the what ifs. This is actually what makes you a stronger believer if you can prove yourself wrong. Also, Father Frank and the other priests should be, excuse me 4 saying this, disappointed in themselves as well since they were not able to carry out their message successfully 2 all of their parishoners.

[proudchaldean]

^^lol @ Renee...God(she) works in mysterious ways^^ *As for the fundamentalists...i think many people who call themselves catholic and dont believe in the divinity of Jesus or the scriptures still call themselves catholic because thats the background they were raised in...even though they might not believe in the divinity, they still identify with the church and other people in the church who grew up the same way they did. *It is possible to belong to a group and not agree with everything they believe in.

[BONO]

^^^ so u r saying that they are catholic by name only.^^^^ now that makes a lot of sense...

[proudchaldean]

^^it might not make sense but theres tons of people who do it^^ *Dont forget, Chaldeans are unique in that in our own country, Iraq, we are identified by our religion and not by our culture...The 2 things, chaldean and catholic, have become interchangeable...where does a person go if he wants to be around chaldeans and be in the chaldean culture, but doesnt believe in the catholic religion?? There are no secular institutions that promote our culture!!!

[BONO]

all chaldeans are christains. *they lived in southern area of Baghadad. *when muslims took over, the country became what is known now as "Iraq"

[proudchaldean]

^^so ur saying if i stop believing in the divinity f christ and the catholic church that i am no longer chaldean??

[BONO]

btw proudchaldean, r u proud of being chaldean because of the culture or because of relegion?

[proudchaldean]

^^so ur saying if i stop believing in the divinity f christ and the catholic church that i am no longer chaldean??

[BONO]

^^so ur saying if i stop believing in the divinity f christ and the catholic church that i am no longer chaldean??


u seem very confused.

first of all I said if u call yourself chaldean just for the name and not for the believe of your culture then there is no point of calling yourself chaldean.

second, I said all chaldeans were christains, just like all saudies are muslims. *when chaldeans had a successful nation in mesopotamia, christianity was the only relegion there.

in conclusion, if u stop believeing in the divinity of christ, then u r not christain, and u should stop calling yourself christain just for the name.

[renee]

^^so ur saying if i stop believing in the divinity f christ and the catholic church that i am no longer chaldean??


u seem very confused.

first of all I said if u call yourself chaldean just for the name and not for the believe of your culture then there is no point of calling yourself chaldean.

second, I said all chaldeans were christains, just like all saudies are muslims. *when chaldeans had a successful nation in mesopotamia, christianity was the only relegion there.

in conclusion, if u stop believeing in the divinity of christ, then u r not christain, and u should stop calling yourself christain just for the name.

But Bono, I seem to agree with him that Chaldeans have emerged as a race and nationality.

[proudchaldean]

I am proud of being chaldean because of our culture and our religious history...although i am not a practicing catholic, i am proud of our people's accomplishments in that area...when u said all chaldeans are christians, it seemed like u said someone who didnt believe in christianity but was of chaldean descent was no longer chaldean

[BONO]

^^so ur saying if i stop believing in the divinity f christ and the catholic church that i am no longer chaldean??


u seem very confused.

first of all I said if u call yourself chaldean just for the name and not for the believe of your culture then there is no point of calling yourself chaldean.

second, I said all chaldeans were christains, just like all saudies are muslims. *when chaldeans had a successful nation in mesopotamia, christianity was the only relegion there.

in conclusion, if u stop believeing in the divinity of christ, then u r not christain, and u should stop calling yourself christain just for the name.

But Bono, I seem to agree with him that Chaldeans have emerged as a race and nationality.

u r correct, which is the same as what I'm saying.

for example. *and this is no offense to anyone, it's just an example. *Let's say that Saudi Arabia gets invaded and taken over by Isreal. *Isreal would spread their relegion there and they would rename the country (possibly). *now the muslims that flee out of that country or who still believe in their faith will remain muslims and will call themselves Saudis, b/c that's what they believe in.

[UmiSayz]

for example. *and this is no offense to anyone, it's just an example. *Let's say that Saudi Arabia gets invaded and taken over by Isreal. *Isreal would spread their relegion there and they would rename the country (possibly). *now the muslims that flee out of that country or who still believe in their faith will remain muslims and will call themselves Saudis, b/c that's what they believe in.


No. They would still call themselves muslims and not Saudis. We dont believe in seperate race. So what you're saying is uncomparible to Chaldeans being called Christians. You're comparing orange and apples.

[proudchaldean]

dont u believe that chaldeans are a race and nationality and not just a religion? what happened to our foods, dances, music, way of life, etc... are those things so linked to christianity that if we stop being christian, we will stop practicing them and lose our cultural identity as chaldeans?

[BONO]

^^dude, read what I'm saying, u would remain muslim, but would u retreat to the Israli nationality?

[proudchaldean]

^^lol Bono...sorry bro im slow...can u sum up ur point one more time, cuz im not getting it^^

[BONO]

we r chaldeans who came from chaldea. *over the years chaldea was taken over and destroyed by mulims and called the entire region Iraq. *CHALDEANS LOST THE WAR, SO THEY LOST THEIR COUNTRY.

chaldeans kept to their culture, which included their christain faith.

[SensationalNour]

There are a lot of chaldeans in this world that are not very religious which causes them to go against there religion...and sometimes deny that they are catholic...that happens in every nationality...you will always have a certain amount of people who will not believe in there religion but still consider themselves of that culture...there is nothing that we can do about that...all we can do is be very religious and believe in our faith :)

I am definitely proud to be Catholic no offense to any of the other religions in this world...and I am very proud to be Iraqie :) When people ask me what nationality I am...I don't say Chaldean because they don't know what that is...I say I am Middle-Eastern from Iraq...but then they are under false accusations that I am muslim...I just simply tell them...BUT I'M CATHOLIC.

~~Nour~~

[UmiSayz]

we r chaldeans who came from chaldea. *over the years chaldea was taken over and destroyed by mulims and called the entire region Iraq. *CHALDEANS LOST THE WAR, SO THEY LOST THEIR COUNTRY.

chaldeans kept to their culture, which included their christain faith.


Whats destroyed? Name some. You guys been givin a choice. Pay jezya ( so that you'll be protected) or keep your faith. The Abbassids Empire build your churches, bought education, tradings, businessess etc....

[BONO]

^^^then why is that region called Iraq???

[UmiSayz]

^^^then why is that region called Iraq???


It wasn't called Iraq. It was called Mesopotamia (sp?). *So what if the name changed? Where are you getting at with this?

[SamIAM™]

BONO, are u saying that if you're not religious then you're not chaldean ?

[BONO]

^^^then why is that region called Iraq???


It wasn't called Iraq. It was called Mesopotamia (sp?). *So what if the name changed? Where are you getting at with this?

y did it change :?:

I think u know the answer but don't want to admit it.

[CHALDEANELVIS]

I would also like to see the email you sent to Father Frank. Does he seem disturbed that we ask such questions about the Bible? If so, why? It is not a sin to believe in the Bible and ask questions and wonder the what ifs. This is actually what makes you a stronger believer if you can prove yourself wrong. Also, Father Frank and the other priests should be, excuse me 4 saying this, disappointed in themselves as well since they were not able to carry out their message successfully 2 all of their parishoners.


Hi Rita,

I am starting to really respect your views on things now, but I have to point out why this got out of hand.

First, there is nothing wrong with questioning, how else would you learn? The problem is, you weren't questioning, you were making absolute statements that the Bible is not the word of God and Jesus is not God.

I agree, the priests do not teach as they should be, but will answer to most Christian claims such as the deity of Christ and the infalliblility of scripture. No TRUE Catholic says the Bible has contradictions or Jesus is not God. I wouldn't call them Catholics, rather atheist/catholics, it makes as much sense as denying those points and slapping a label on yourself that says "Catholic" because you were born into it.

Please, talk to your priests Rita. Don't be fooled with Renee's blasphemous remarks. Remember, you will be accountable for yourself, not Renee. Jesus said many people will not hold to the Bible anymore, but will drown in their own thoughts, and they will burn in hell for eternity. Of all the people in here, you are the only one with zeal. Jesus said if anyone comes to you with something, test it with scritpure. The Bible says to "Test all things"


God Bless
-Elvis

[Rita]

for example. *and this is no offense to anyone, it's just an example. *Let's say that Saudi Arabia gets invaded and taken over by Isreal. *Isreal would spread their relegion there and they would rename the country (possibly). *now the muslims that flee out of that country or who still believe in their faith will remain muslims and will call themselves Saudis, b/c that's what they believe in.


No. They would still call themselves muslims and not Saudis. We dont believe in seperate race. So what you're saying is uncomparible to Chaldeans being called Christians. You're comparing orange and apples.

I'm sorry but I don't know any Muslim that says I'm Muslim when asked what they are or what their nationality is. You are placing them all in one category. However the poeple I know tell me they are Lebanese, Jordanian, Syrian, etc whenever someone asks what they are. Maybe it's just you! *:roll:

Also Bono: I think proudchaldean is messing with u the same way you mess with Andy's wifey. Karma is a bitch, LMAO. Stop explaining. *:lol:

Point is, Chaldeans lived in what is now Iraq. The arabs moved in and took over our country. The majority of the entire country is Muslim. The only one's who are not are the Chaldeans, Assyrians and some Syrians. We don't tell people we are from Chaldea, simply because it does not exist anymore. We do describe that our people came from Mesopotamia and Babylonia. When telling people who are not of our culture that our parents came from Iraq, they immediately think we are Muslim. We distinguish ourselves by our religion simply because many non-Chaldeans do not know of our history and our existence. By saying that we come from Iraq and are Catholic, we are able 2 distinguish ourselves from the rest of the people who occupy that land & understand what group we are from. If we are speaking to other Chaldeans or Arabs, we simply say we are Chaldean when they ask what we are.

[Shlama_98]

I think the Catholic Church in general is teaching the wrong teachings to the public, I remember when I was younger asking questions to the priest we had where we lived, I asked him questions about the Bible like "Why do the Gospels differ in someways?" or "Why does the Bible say Bishops can merry yet the Church does not allow it?", and these questions would stun him and make him ignore the question and go into circles with me about God's love, then one day he said "If you need any help on understanding the word of God then come to me", I said "Sorry father, but I've decided to read up the Bible on my own and answer my own questions by myself", he looked disappointed as if I'm reading a devil's book, he even told me that I'm not gonna understand if I read it on my own. *

I was puzzled on that day, but I decided to not read the English Bible and strengthen my Syriac to read the Bible at its closest roots (Not that there's anything wrong with the English one, I just wanted to learn more Syriac in reality), after a few years of learning Syriac well to get by reading I read it (I eventually read them all, in Syriac, Arabic, and English), and I understood why that priest was disappointed, because whatever he learned from the Church breaks the Bible here and there, the answers to why prists and bishops are't allowed to get married is not in the Bible, it's in Church history, and the reason why the Gospels differ from each other is because the Gospels are old and written by men who wanted to spread the word about Jesus, these men were inspired by God and Jesus but at the same time they were humans, humans make errors, not to mention that the Bible has been rewritten many times but the main message of God's love and the teachings to be a good person are in there which are the most important things.

[renee]

Don't be fooled with Renee's blasphemous remarks. Remember, you will be accountable for yourself, not Renee.

:roll:

[BONO]

i've been foooooooled :(

[renee]

the reason why the Gospels differ from each other is because the Gospels are old and written by men who wanted to spread the word about Jesus, these men were inspired by God and Jesus but at the same time they were humans, humans make errors, not to mention that the Bible has been rewritten many times but the main message of God's love and the teachings to be a good person are in there which are the most important things.



EXACTLY!

[Rita]

I would also like to see the email you sent to Father Frank. Does he seem disturbed that we ask such questions about the Bible? If so, why? It is not a sin to believe in the Bible and ask questions and wonder the what ifs. This is actually what makes you a stronger believer if you can prove yourself wrong. Also, Father Frank and the other priests should be, excuse me 4 saying this, disappointed in themselves as well since they were not able to carry out their message successfully 2 all of their parishoners.


Hi Rita,

I am starting to really respect your views on things now, but I have to point out why this got out of hand.

First, there is nothing wrong with questioning, how else would you learn? The problem is, you weren't questioning, you were making absolute statements that the Bible is not the word of God and Jesus is not God.

I agree, the priests do not teach as they should be, but will answer to most Christian claims such as the deity of Christ and the infalliblility of scripture. No TRUE Catholic says the Bible has contradictions or Jesus is not God. I wouldn't call them Catholics, rather atheist/catholics, it makes as much sense as denying those points and slapping a label on yourself that says "Catholic" because you were born into it.

Please, talk to your priests Rita. Don't be fooled with Renee's blasphemous remarks. Remember, you will be accountable for yourself, not Renee. Jesus said many people will not hold to the Bible anymore, but will drown in their own thoughts, and they will burn in hell for eternity. Of all the people in here, you are the only one with zeal. Jesus said if anyone comes to you with something, test it with scritpure. The Bible says to "Test all things"


God Bless
-Elvis

First, I NEVER said the Bible was not the word of God. You or ojeen said the Bible was WRITTEN by God. I said the statement was false and the Bible was written by man & it was the word of God. These are 2 totally different things. Also, I said the reason why Jesus is usually referred to as God the Son is simply because He and His Father are viewed as One. If you believe in Jesus Christ, you believe in God. They are both superior than any man, saint or being. We refer God as nothing other than God or God the Father as you mention. However, Jesus is usually always referred as Jesus Christ or the Lord. Why would we call him Jesus (by His name) and not just strictly God the Son and nothing other? I don't know how else to put it or explain it.

Also, as far as teachings from the Bible... you claim that the devil is really disguised as the Virgin Mary and it was he who appeared to the 3 children at Fatima and all other visions throughout history. If this is so and these teachings are taught throughout the Catholic religion, why is it that our priests encourage this. Maybe you should ask Father Frank!!! Why do our priests hold trips to visit such places? Why do they hold an entire mass at Carey, Ohio when Chaldeans visit the Church and the site where the Virgin Mary once appeared? Why do we acknowledge such things if these things were created by Satan and say so in the Bible? These are the contradictions I'm referring to!

[renee]

First, I NEVER said the Bible was not the word of God. You or ojeen said the Bible was WRITTEN by God. I said the statement was false and the Bible was written by man & it was the word of God!

All Catholics believe that the Bible is the "INSPIRED" word of God. This fundamentalist cult is no better than Scientology who also believe that one book sums up the whole theology.

[Rita]

I was puzzled on that day, but I decided to not read the English Bible and strengthen my Syriac to read the Bible at its closest roots (Not that there's anything wrong with the English one, I just wanted to learn more Syriac in reality), after a few years of learning Syriac well to get by reading I read it (I eventually read them all, in Syriac, Arabic, and English), and I understood why that priest was disappointed, because whatever he learned from the Church breaks the Bible here and there, the answers to why prists and bishops are't allowed to get married is not in the Bible, it's in Church history, and the reason why the Gospels differ from each other is because the Gospels are old and written by men who wanted to spread the word about Jesus, these men were inspired by God and Jesus but at the same time they were humans, humans make errors, not to mention that the Bible has been rewritten many times but the main message of God's love and the teachings to be a good person are in there which are the most important things.

these were my exact words and I was told I will not be given a seat in Heaven for believing this way by Chaldeanelvis and ojeen.

[ojeen1981]

Imagine

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.


John Lennon

[ojeen1981]

I was puzzled on that day, but I decided to not read the English Bible and strengthen my Syriac to read the Bible at its closest roots (Not that there's anything wrong with the English one, I just wanted to learn more Syriac in reality), after a few years of learning Syriac well to get by reading I read it (I eventually read them all, in Syriac, Arabic, and English), and I understood why that priest was disappointed, because whatever he learned from the Church breaks the Bible here and there, the answers to why prists and bishops are't allowed to get married is not in the Bible, it's in Church history, and the reason why the Gospels differ from each other is because the Gospels are old and written by men who wanted to spread the word about Jesus, these men were inspired by God and Jesus but at the same time they were humans, humans make errors, not to mention that the Bible has been rewritten many times but the main message of God's love and the teachings to be a good person are in there which are the most important things.



these were my exact words and I was told I will not be given a seat in Heaven for believing this way by Chaldeanelvis and ojeen.

rita, plz go back and find the quote that i said that to u, becuase i never did!!!

plz people dont include my name in things that dont represent who i am, and people dont put words in my mouth, its simple respect like how i would not put words in people's mouth outta respect. *so rita double check!

[renee]

Imagine

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
..........

So now you are promoting Transendental Meditation? This song was written when the Beatles were followers of TM.

[renee]

i've been foooooooled :(

First I fool you, and then I get you to sell your soul to the devil. LOL *:roll:

Watch out Bono, the next you know, I'll be offering you sex to corrupt your soul.

[ojeen1981]

Imagine

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
..........

So now you are promoting Transendental Meditation? This song was written when the Beatles were followers of TM.

Promised myself not to respond to u, but since your after me….

I love the Beatles, am not a closed minded fundamentalists like yourself who only holds to one very limited view on the world, the world is too complex to do that… *Think OUTSIDE the box!

[BONO]

i've been foooooooled :(

First I fool you, and then I get you to sell your soul to the devil. LOL *:roll:

Watch out Bono, the next you know, I'll be offering you sex to corrupt your soul.

my soul is yours Miss Babylon *:love:

[renee]

i've been foooooooled :(

First I fool you, and then I get you to sell your soul to the devil. LOL *:roll:

Watch out Bono, the next you know, I'll be offering you sex to corrupt your soul.

my soul is yours Miss Babylon *:love:

come on baby, mama's gonna give ya some suga *:love:

[CHALDEANELVIS]

RITA, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO SHOW ME WHERE I SAID THAT TOO. I NEVER SAID THAT, NEITHER DID OJEEN. BTW, THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN BY MAN, MEN DO MAKE ERRORS. BUT WHAT ABOUT MEN WHO HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD IN THEM WHILE WRITING THESE LETTERS? :think:

VERY, VERY, VERY INTERESTING HOW NOBODY EVER COMMENTS ON THOSE VERSES THAT I KEEP REPEATING THAT DISPROVE THE "MAN FALLACY".

VERY INTERESTING *:think:

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE




ps, very interesting

[proudchaldean]

^^how interesting????

[BONO]

i've been foooooooled :(

First I fool you, and then I get you to sell your soul to the devil. LOL *:roll:

Watch out Bono, the next you know, I'll be offering you sex to corrupt your soul.

my soul is yours Miss Babylon *:love:

come on baby, mama's gonna give ya some suga *:love:


show me some suga....I am your neighbor *:oops:

[ojeen1981]

^^^then why is that region called Iraq???


It wasn't called Iraq. It was called Mesopotamia (sp?). *So what if the name changed? Where are you getting at with this?


y did it change :?:

I think u know the answer but don't want to admit it.
as i think some are insinuating....
the name Iraq has nothing to do with Islam, its a name given to the geographical entity of Iraq after it gained its intependance. *The word Iraq has mulitple meanings, but one of them dominant meanings is "long traiditions" and its a sumerian word and it was name after a city called uruk, an ancient city in which the temple of Gilgimish was found. *this name was used by the Great Abbasid Empire as a referance to this region of mesopotemia.

[maxpower]

some times i ask myself....

SELF. Why do people in this forum tend to be self obscured? *No matter what is someone’s believes are, they tend to overlook these may possibly be genuine facts. *We encompass a discussion here that went entirely in an unusual path.

So in conclusion ladies and gentlemen, you do not tend to accept this decent man’s idea, and would like to scrutinize it, and seize it with all its contents, because quite frankly, you do not like it. *And sense that this might be the one that will strip you from your capabilities of presenting your intolerant smart ass commentaries.

[UmiSayz]

I'm sorry but I don't know any Muslim that says I'm Muslim when asked what they are or what their nationality is. You are placing them all in one category. However the poeple I know tell me they are Lebanese, Jordanian, Syrian, etc whenever someone asks what they are. Maybe it's just you! *:roll:






Ok you didn't get what i was tryin to say. Its my fault that i didn't make it clear. IN our belief we just say we're humans since thats a race in our book. Cultures are only here because God wants us to understand each other and how we react to them. In depths...if you really ask them if one race is what they believe they should tell you yes. I didn't really understand what Bono is tryin to say. I think hes tryin to say that if we fled from a conquered muslim country by outsiders then we wouldn't call ourselves muslims? I think thats what he was tryin to say. That is why i said we would still be muslims no matter where we go. Correct me if i'm wrong.

[UmiSayz]

as i think some are insinuating....
the name Iraq has nothing to do with Islam, its a name given to the geographical entity of Iraq after it gained its intependance. *The word Iraq has mulitple meanings, but one of them dominant meanings is "long traiditions" and its a sumerian word and it was name after a city called uruk, an ancient city in which the temple of Gilgimish was found. *this name was used by the Great Abbasid Empire as a referance to this region of mesopotemia.


Well put bro. *:applause: *I hope BONO understands now. :roll:

[renee]

So in conclusion ladies and gentlemen,

You have some nerve in thinking YOU can conclude this discussion. You have not added anything of substance to it.

[maxpower]

So in conclusion ladies and gentlemen,

You have some nerve in thinking YOU can conclude this discussion. You have not added anything of substance to it.

Darling.. i dont just have the nerves... i got the BALLS to conclude whatever i desire...

and thank you... you have proven my point here

[renee]

So in conclusion ladies and gentlemen,

You have some nerve in thinking YOU can conclude this discussion. You have not added anything of substance to it.

Darling.. i dont just have the nerves... i got the BALLS to conclude whatever i desire...

and thank you... you have proven my point here

balls are so easily crushed by a woman with superior intelligence. watch yours. :firing:

[maxpower]

and quite frankly.. i dont see any inteligence comming from your side

[Rita]

Also, as far as teachings from the Bible... you claim that the devil is really disguised as the Virgin Mary and it was he who appeared to the 3 children at Fatima and all other visions throughout history. If this is so and these teachings are taught throughout the Catholic religion, why is it that our priests encourage this. Maybe you should ask Father Frank!!! Why do our priests hold trips to visit such places? Why do they hold an entire mass at Carey, Ohio when Chaldeans visit the Church and the site where the Virgin Mary once appeared? Why do we acknowledge such things if these things were created by Satan and say so in the Bible? These are the contradictions I'm referring to!

OK, we'll try this one more time Elvis... ANSWER THIS!!! Please, don't only include passages from the Bible but inclue your opinion & thoughts as well. If you must, email this exact question to Father Frank if you need help. Please don't run around this question or ignore it again.

[Senalko]

I have spent a good hour reading this thread from start to finish, and i must admit, i was absoultely shocked at the lack of history knowledge and the Wild assumptions and the way some are trying to connect chaldean as an ethnicity with Religion..... very disturbing....

I will give u my 2 cents on this topic...

First of all Islam has nothing and i repeat nothing to do with chaldeans or the Fall of the chaldean empire...nor has it anything to do with losing your nationality or identity....

The Chaldean empire Was Crushed by the Assyrian empire, after years of battles between them, its as simple as that.....pick any book and it will tell u that...

I honestly can only conclude that the mentality of some Chaldeans who are born outside of iraq is a scary one... they remind me of the Fanatic assyrians who Claim that assyria is their country just the same the way chaldea is the chaldean country...

that is got to be the saddest thing i ever hear.....People who suffer from a lack of identity and a homeland, often turn their beliefs into hatred, and they become so fanatical and extreme about their race and culture to the point it becomes a laughable matter....

I will say it for those who dont get it.. Being Chaldean has nothingggggggggggg to do with being Catholic.....YOU dont have to be a Catholic to be chaldean. what i mean by that is that u dont have to be practicing Religion or identity yourself as catholic for people to accept u as a chaldean....

That is a load of rubbish , just the same way i find it more ridculious that people treat chaldeanity as a nationality....IT is not... its an ethnicity with the Catholic religon being its main religion....

if your a chaldean, your nationality is IRAQI.. cuase that is the country where Chaldeans came from.. its as simple as that.... I dont think any chaldean that u would ask would ever have an issue with that...

its only those US born chaldeans who never realy experienced the feeling of living on their homeland, that when they grow up, they develop a serious Fanatical & Extreme problem cuase of their loss of a True identity for a homeland.....so they start blabing just like the assyrians do about their stolen land, and how the arabs and muslems took over from them., and they teach thir kids to hate anything that is called iraq or iraqi, and they ban playing arabic music in their parties, and they keep dreaming until this day about a civilasation that was lost thousands of years a go, instead of being realisitic and accepting that our roots as christians is in iraq, as of the current day, and that it should be our duty to help out our people back there :(.....

[John_5_24]

Also, as far as teachings from the Bible... you claim that the devil is really disguised as the Virgin Mary and it was he who appeared to the 3 children at Fatima and all other visions throughout history. If this is so and these teachings are taught throughout the Catholic religion, why is it that our priests encourage this. Maybe you should ask Father Frank!!! Why do our priests hold trips to visit such places? Why do they hold an entire mass at Carey, Ohio when Chaldeans visit the Church and the site where the Virgin Mary once appeared? Why do we acknowledge such things if these things were created by Satan and say so in the Bible? These are the contradictions I'm referring to!

OK, we'll try this one more time Elvis... ANSWER THIS!!! Please, don't only include passages from the Bible but inclue your opinion & thoughts as well. If you must, email this exact question to Father Frank if you need help. Please don't run around this question or ignore it again.


Rita, I would say that this is cetainly an area where I would disagree with the Catholic church. *I would not go as far as to say that every aborition of Mary or Jesus that appears is false, we have no way to know in what ways God chooses to work. *I would rather suggest that you be very discerning and aware of Scripture to test the messages that are being put forth by these aboritions if any. *If they agree with Scripture, which is the Christian standard, then how are we to say that they are false?

Again though, I would say that some of these points you are bringing *up are some of the diferrences between myself and the Catholic Church. *You had asked that I post the original email to Father Frank, and in fairness I will. *(Please see the next post)

[John_5_24]

The following is the original email I sent Father Frank. *You will notice that I even point out that there are differences in what the Catholic Church believes and I believe. *I hope this may clear up any confusion as to what FF was answering:

--------------------------------------
My email to FF:

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Shamoun [mailto:shamounanthony@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 1:16 PM
To: abounajr@yahoo.com
Subject: People in need of your help


Hello Fr. Frank,
I don't know if you remember me or not, it has been quite a while since we
last spoke.

I am writing to you today because there are members of your church who are
in desperate need, and I am all but certain that you are unaware. *There are

several of us who take part in a Bible study. *Those of us who are in this
study have all left the Catholic church and are members of various
Presbyterian or Baptist churches. *We all feel that part of our calling is
to spread the Good News of our Savior. *Please know that I am not implying
preaching or "bashing" against the Catholic church in any way, but rather,
preaching to the unbelievers.

As part of our efforts, we make tremendous use of internet forums to spread
the Good News as they seem to bring together people from all walks of life.

There is one forum that several of us have been involved in recently that is

strictly for Chaldeans/Assyrians. *Many of the topics that are brought up
involve the Church and our faith in Christ. *The focus of recent discussion
is the reason that I am contacting you.

Almost all of the people who partake in the forum profess to be Catholics. *
Yet, many of these same supposed believers also deny the Deity of Christ and

the infalibility of Scripture. *I assure you Fr. Frank that the discussions
have not been on the traditional differences between the Catholic and
Protestants, but have been focused on fundamental Christian beliefs such as
the Trinity and the infallibility of Scripture.

Upon discussion of these matters with the members of your church, I have
been told that "Jesus is not God". *When I ask where they learned that, I am
told "I was taught the difference between Jesus and God when I took my first communion classes". *This is just one example. *When professing atheists ask for evidence from Scripture on a particular topic, and evidence is given, professing Catholics themselves mock our usage of Scripture to substantiate anything because the Bible "is full of contradictions and is therefore untrue". *These are people who are sitting in your pews every week Father.

One of my friends pleaded with them to take their statements to a Priest if
they wouldn't believe us and we were mocked again! *It does not bother me
that they mock me. *I have come to expect this from unbelievers, but from
professing Catholics?

I am not blaming you or the Catholic church in any way. *I am only writing
you to inform you in hopes that you may know of a way to reach these people.

They are in need of help and teaching.

I know that you and I would differ on many doctrinal and theological issues,
but I also believe that we stand united as brothers in Christ in the
Christian essentials. *It is in that unity in the essentials that I appeal
to you today. *I do not know how to approach these people any further other than to continue to proclaim these truths that all true Christians agree on, and I will continue to do that. *I pray that you will also be able to help
in this manner, whether it be through Sunday mass, or some basic education
programs through the church. *Whatever you decide or think is most
appropriate, I ask that you share that with me so that I may pass along the
information. *These people still maintain respect for you and the other
Chaldean priests. *The least that I can do is to direct them to the programs
you have set up in search for Truth in the fundamental doctrines of all
Christians.

May God Bless you Fr. Frank,

Anthony


--------------------------------------------
FF response:

Anthony,

Grace and peace in our Lord

It is with great sadness that I received your e-mail. *This is truly a
distressing scene when professed Christians (Catholic or non-Catholic) make
such horrible proclamations on our Lord or the Scriptures. *Though I cannot
speak on behalf of the other Chaldean Catholic Priests, I can definitely say
that when I was at Mother of God Church and now here at St. Thomas, the
divinity of Christ is brought up frequently and especially lately I am
imprinting upon the listeners. *Our various other programs, such as
Catechism, First Communion and the such, do the same. *I made sure of that!
Anywho, whatever the situation is, these people are not getting the message.
Please have them contact me whether by email or phone (248-788-2460). *This
is a grave matter that needs an immediate response. *Please, if need be,
forward this email to them if necessary. *

Thanks and may God bless you.

FF

P.S. It gives me great pleasure see Christians working for Christ instead of
against each other. *This is the message of our Lord. *Thanks.

----------------------
I hope that helps.

[John_5_24]

I was quite suprised when I saw the level of activity on this thread. *

Denial of such basic Christian principles such as the Deity of Christ and the infallibility of Scripture will certainly lead to destruction. *I sent the email to FF and posted it here in hopes that some of you who are professing Catholics would see that just because I am not Catholic, I still have some of the same beliefs. *There are several issues where I disagree with Rome, but not on such basic doctrines such as these. *It is sad that for several weeks now arguments have been dismissed because they come from non Catholics. *I was hoping that seeing the affirmation of FF would help aleviate that, but it obviously has not. *I pray that you may see the light one day.

[renee]

So I don't get it, do you think that by telling on these MI people you will help them? You think that if their priests know their opinions they will pressure them?

I disagree with the Pope and priests on many issues. They are, after all, only men.

But because our beliefs vary from yours. Because we choose to interpret the Bible differently, we have to be wrong in your eyes.

[ojeen1981]

rita, am still waiting for the quote u claimed i said about u....???

[CHALDEANELVIS]

Also, as far as teachings from the Bible... you claim that the devil is really disguised as the Virgin Mary and it was he who appeared to the 3 children at Fatima and all other visions throughout history. If this is so and these teachings are taught throughout the Catholic religion, why is it that our priests encourage this. Maybe you should ask Father Frank!!! Why do our priests hold trips to visit such places? Why do they hold an entire mass at Carey, Ohio when Chaldeans visit the Church and the site where the Virgin Mary once appeared? Why do we acknowledge such things if these things were created by Satan and say so in the Bible? These are the contradictions I'm referring to!

OK, we'll try this one more time Elvis... ANSWER THIS!!! Please, don't only include passages from the Bible but inclue your opinion & thoughts as well. If you must, email this exact question to Father Frank if you need help. Please don't run around this question or ignore it again.


I never ran around this question. If you say I did, it's only because I didn't see it or forgot to answer.

It's very simple Rita. The reason the Catholic church teaches this doctrine is because God sent them a strong delusion to believe what is false because the did not hold fast to the Word of God. Please reread page 1, it answers most questions you have on this topic.

Reason two, they are fallible men.

God Bless,
Elvis

[GreenEyeZchal705]

So I don't get it, do you think that by telling on these MI people you will help them? You think that if their priests know their opinions they will pressure them?

I disagree with the Pope and priests on many issues. They are, after all, only men.

But because our beliefs vary from yours. Because we choose to interpret the Bible differently, we have to be wrong in your eyes.

Renee,

The pope and the priests of our church may in your eyes be only men but there job is to spread the word of God and to follow the bible. *In my opinion those who didn't agree with the late Pope John Paul II were upset because he didnt crumble under the pressure of all the new age thinking and held firmly to the word of the Bible.

[maxpower]

So I don't get it, do you think that by telling on these MI people you will help them? You think that if their priests know their opinions they will pressure them?

I disagree with the Pope and priests on many issues. They are, after all, only men.

But because our beliefs vary from yours. Because we choose to interpret the Bible differently, we have to be wrong in your eyes.

Renee,

The pope and the priests of our church may in your eyes be only men but there job is to spread the word of God and to follow the bible. *In my opinion those who didn't agree with the late Pope John Paul II were upset because he didnt crumble under the pressure of all the new age thinking and held firmly to the word of the Bible.

amen to that

[renee]

So I don't get it, do you think that by telling on these MI people you will help them? You think that if their priests know their opinions they will pressure them?

I disagree with the Pope and priests on many issues. They are, after all, only men.

But because our beliefs vary from yours. Because we choose to interpret the Bible differently, we have to be wrong in your eyes.

Renee,

The pope and the priests of our church may in your eyes be only men but there job is to spread the word of God and to follow the bible. *In my opinion those who didn't agree with the late Pope John Paul II were upset because he didnt crumble under the pressure of all the new age thinking and held firmly to the word of the Bible.

Except he allowed animist practices in the African Church.

[Neo]

why do people right essays to make their point can't they get to the point quicker?????

[John_5_24]

So I don't get it, do you think that by telling on these MI people you will help them? You think that if their priests know their opinions they will pressure them?

I disagree with the Pope and priests on many issues. They are, after all, only men.

But because our beliefs vary from yours. Because we choose to interpret the Bible differently, we have to be wrong in your eyes.

Renee, it is unfortunate that you mistake my concern for your heretical beliefs as "tattle telling".

[Rita]

It's really funny how you sent an email to Father Frank concerning our beliefs yet you failed to comment on yours and how it differs from us. Why was it not mentioned that the devil is disguised as the visions that appear and it is wrong to believe in that? Maybe Father Frank could have replied to you that some visions are true, spreading the smoke in church is represented as a symbol of Christ since it was one of the gifts he recieved from the 3 kingsmen, the Holy Water and Holy Eucharist are what make us feel closer to God and praying the rosary is not wrong. Why didn't you care to mention these things? Maybe I should send Father Frank an email to further discuss in detail our differences and why we shun you out.

[ojeen1981]

It's really funny how you sent an email to Father Frank concerning our beliefs yet you failed to comment on yours and how it differs from us. Why was it not mentioned that the devil is disguised as the visions that appear and it is wrong to believe in that? Maybe Father Frank could have replied to you that some visions are true, spreading the smoke in church is represented as a symbol of Christ since it was one of the gifts he recieved from the 3 kingsmen, the Holy Water and Holy Eucharist are what make us feel closer to God and praying the rosary is not wrong. Why didn't you care to mention these things? Maybe I should send Father Frank an email to further discuss in detail our differences and why we shun you out.

yo rita, am gonna keep coming after u till u find the accusation that i supposedly said against u.... *,which it dont exist, meaning *u were words in my mouth.

[Samuel]

This must be some kind of a sick joke.

[CHALDEANELVIS]

It's really funny how you sent an email to Father Frank concerning our beliefs yet you failed to comment on yours and how it differs from us. Why was it not mentioned that the devil is disguised as the visions that appear and it is wrong to believe in that? Maybe Father Frank could have replied to you that some visions are true, spreading the smoke in church is represented as a symbol of Christ since it was one of the gifts he recieved from the 3 kingsmen, the Holy Water and Holy Eucharist are what make us feel closer to God and praying the rosary is not wrong. Why didn't you care to mention these things? Maybe I should send Father Frank an email to further discuss in detail our differences and why we shun you out.

You seem to be missing the point. Please pay close attention as I say this.

Even if we did tell Fr. Frank about visions and apparitions, it makes no difference. God said He would send anyone a strong delusion that held fast to these apparitions. Ever ask yourself why we need Mary to visit us? Ever ask yourself why this same Mary is appearing to Muslims, Buddahist, Japanese and all sorts of other religions? There have been over 300 apparitions! Ever wonder why she doesn't appear to evangelical Bible reading Christians? If she appeared to me I would rebuke her in the name of Jesus Christ and she would dissapear. The fact is, we don't need this mary to tell us anything. God said if you believe in it, I will send your mind over to believe what is false and you will die in your sins. Doesn't sound like something I want to believe in. Frank can't answer it and neither can Rome or the pope, they are fallible men with a terminal disease called SIN with a mind given over to believe what is false. You should go buy the video called "Messages from Heaven" it gives accounts of apparitions all across the world. They interview people from all sects. You should hear what this "mary" is claiming to be and who. I'll give you a few claims this mary gives the people:

"I am the mediator between you and God"

The Bible says: "For there is One Mediator between God and men, that man Jesus Christ" 1 Timothy 2:5

"I am the advocate between you and the Father"

The Bible says: "For we have an advocate, Jesus Christ the righteous who can forgive all sins"

She even claims to be part of the trinity! Pure blasphemy

Why should we worship a vision of someone we don't know who claims to be Mary? Yes, I said worship and I would absolutely love to go into that if you don't believe me. The proof is overwhelming actually.

Ever ask yourself one simple question. If Satan can masquerade as a beautiful angel of light, how then do you know this vision is the actual Blessed Mother in the Bible? And how would you know the difference? *:think:

Elvis

[John_5_24]

It's really funny how you sent an email to Father Frank concerning our beliefs yet you failed to comment on yours and how it differs from us. Why was it not mentioned that the devil is disguised as the visions that appear and it is wrong to believe in that? Maybe Father Frank could have replied to you that some visions are true, spreading the smoke in church is represented as a symbol of Christ since it was one of the gifts he recieved from the 3 kingsmen, the Holy Water and Holy Eucharist are what make us feel closer to God and praying the rosary is not wrong. Why didn't you care to mention these things? Maybe I should send Father Frank an email to further discuss in detail our differences and why we shun you out.

Rita,
I would more than welcome a discussion with FF on the differences between my beliefs and the Catholic churches. *

If you didn't notice, I made reference in my email to him that I disagree with him on many theological issues. *I would be happy to discuss the Eucharist and transubstantiation. *I would be happy to discuss praying the rosary. *The problem is, before we discuss these things, there are bigger issues and that is what I emailed FF about. *Furthermore, if you read FF's "P.S.", you will see that he even acknowledges there are differences between us.

Again, as I said to Renee, it is quite sad and unfortunate that you are taking my email to him as pointing my finger at you or the others on this board. *I did it out of genuine concern and he responded with the same concern.

And by the way, you have no way of knowing that there were 3 kingsmen/wisemen. *The Bible never says three, so don't assume it. *They brought 3 gifts, that we do know, but never does it say there were 3 of them.

[renee]

[
The Bible says: "For there is One Mediator between God and men, that man Jesus Christ" 1 Timothy 2:5


Another Biblical illogicality. If Jesus Christ = God, then we can rewrite the above sentences as "For there is One Mediator between God and men, and that man [is] God?"

So, if the Bible is right, Jesus Christ is not God. If Jesus Christ is God, then the Bible is at least wrong in one verse.

You guys ought to get out of the party stores and take a math or symbolic logic course.

[Rita]

thanks 4 proving my point Renee.

Also, John: my motive was not to point my finger but to also show you that we discuss these subjects on this site. When I tell you this is what I believe in and that the Catholic church acknowledges these things, it is also unnecessary for you & your boys to tell me I'm in complete danger of this. I find it disrespectful that you try 2 sway me from my beliefs and tell me we're wrong.

[renee]

Exactly Rita. You hit the nail on the head. Whether they said we will go to hell or that we are "in danger" for our beliefs, it's the same thing.

We, as Catholics, can say (and our priests will support this even though I acknoledge that I'm a sinner) that John, Rudy, Ojeen, Elvis, and others are at risk of going to hell if they don't confess their sins to a priest, accept the Eucharist as the true Body and Blood of Christ, accept the immaculate concpetion of Mary, accept the magisterium of the Pope, and follow the rules of Canon Law. But we didn't. (Well I did just to be pissy but you didn't).

We can also say the same things to Umi and the other muslims BUT WE DON"T. We accept the differences and the rights of others to believe what they want.

As a libertarian (fiscal conservative/social liberal) Republican, this is what scares me about the power the evangelical christians think they have in the US. Everyone should read the book by the most promising woman in the Republican Party, Christine Todd Whitman -- "It's My Party Too."

In it, she demonstrates that without a centrist view, the Republican Party is doomed.

[CHALDEANELVIS]

[
The Bible says: "For there is One Mediator between God and men, that man Jesus Christ" 1 Timothy 2:5


Another Biblical illogicality. If Jesus Christ = God, then we can rewrite the above sentences as "For there is One Mediator between God and men, and that man [is] God?"

So, if the Bible is right, Jesus Christ is not God. If Jesus Christ is God, then the Bible is at least wrong in one verse.

You guys ought to get out of the party stores and take a math or symbolic logic course.


Please explain to me how this verse proves Jesus was not God? I gave extreme Scriptural support for Rita in my previous posts, you need to go reread them. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ, God the Son, is our mediator between us and the Father. What is the problem with this? Please stop claiming to be a Catholic while saying there are errors in the Bible. I already told you what the Catechism says about you claiming to be a Catholic, you are clearly not. Your Baptism meant absolutely nothing and you have yet to prove how the Church derived this teaching from Scripture. Because if they didn't, they are teaching heresy. Aslo, where do we ever see sprinkling in the entire Bible, let alone a baby?

According to Rome, you guys are anethmatized. Read my 2 closing statements in the "Visions, Mary" topic before you respond to this thread and explain to me how you are still Catholic. This I would love to hear.

-Elvis

PS. Rita, I agree with John. The point of the letter to FF was not to ask about other topics, rather to help you guys believe in the teachings of your Church. FF has debated one of our protestant friends at St. Thomas in '03 and I believe there were 400 people that saw it. I have it on DVD. So we are not afraid to bring up doctrinal issues with him, but we are commanded to give a reason for our faith, not provoke an argument or debate.

[Rita]

if you claim to help us in the teachings of our church, maybe u should respect all of its teachings rather than only the ones we share with u.

[ojeen1981]

Exactly Rita. You hit the nail on the head. Whether they said we will go to hell or that we are "in danger" for our beliefs, it's the same thing.

We, as Catholics, can say (and our priests will support this even though I acknoledge that I'm a sinner) that John, Rudy, Ojeen, Elvis, and others are at risk of going to hell if they don't confess their sins to a priest, accept the Eucharist as the true Body and Blood of Christ, accept the immaculate concpetion of Mary, accept the magisterium of the Pope, and follow the rules of Canon Law. But we didn't. (Well I did just to be pissy but you didn't).

We can also say the same things to Umi and the other muslims BUT WE DON"T. We accept the differences and the rights of others to believe what they want.

As a libertarian (fiscal conservative/social liberal) Republican, this is what scares me about the power the evangelical christians think they have in the US. Everyone should read the book by the most promising woman in the Republican Party, Christine Todd Whitman -- "It's My Party Too."

In it, she demonstrates that without a centrist view, the Republican Party is doomed.

their u go labeling me once again. *this is retarded becuase your putting names on me of things i dont even represent. *your goal is to discredit me infront of of the people in this site so they wount listen or respect what i have to say about issues in reagrds to politics, literutre, philsophy, history and reiligions...your a very inserue woman renee....u need to stop labling me

and renee...stop being a close minded fundamentista right wing republican.

[CHALDEANELVIS]

if you claim to help us in the teachings of our church, maybe u should respect all of its teachings rather than only the ones we share with u.

Respect it's teachings? Do you think Jesus respected any teachings that wasnt His? Rita, don't take offense to anything I respond to unless you feel convicted. Renee says the Bible has errors, Jesus is not God, and God is a woman and still claims to be Catholic! How is this so? God the FATHER, not mother. I have been studying Catholicism for quite some time now. I know the Catechism pretty well and it teaches heresy. Don't believe me? I would love to show you, just ask. Make sure you have your CCC with you. Look, I refuse to accept any teaching that didn't come from our Creator. I'm not part of the new-aged seeker friendly movement. Jesus said everyone will hate you and call you names and persecute you because of Me, rejoice and be glad for greater things are stored for you in Heaven. The Bible says many, many times that the truth will be watered down into mans theology. I simply refuse to respect any teachings outside of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If anyone should have a problem, take it up with Jesus, not me. He taught this teaching and I will carry it out.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN I DON'T RESPECT YOU. I DONT RESPECT THE TEACHINGS. IT ISN'T ANYONES FAULT THEY BELIEVE WHAT THEY DO BUT IT IS OUR JOB TO TEACH WHAT THE SCRIPTURES TEACH. IT IS NOT MY JOB TO CONVERT NEITHER. IF YOU FEEL CONVICTED, AMEN AND ALL GLORY BE TO OUR FATHER

-Elvis

[renee]

[
The Bible says: "For there is One Mediator between God and men, that man Jesus Christ" 1 Timothy 2:5


Another Biblical illogicality. If Jesus Christ = God, then we can rewrite the above sentences as "For there is One Mediator between God and men, and that man [is] God?"

So, if the Bible is right, Jesus Christ is not God. If Jesus Christ is God, then the Bible is at least wrong in one verse.

You guys ought to get out of the party stores and take a math or symbolic logic course.


Please explain to me how this verse proves Jesus was not God? .

You really are stupid aren't you? I never said that the verse proves Jesus was not God! I'll say it again slowly....

"If the Bible is right, Jesus Christ is not God. If Jesus Christ is God, then the Bible is at least wrong in one verse."

I do believe that Jesus is God. Which implies that the Bible is not without inconsistancies.

At least once a semester I get a student who just can't learn. God knows how he ever gets admitted. I should be used to dealing with your type.

[ojeen1981]

I question your intelligence renee, or ability to learn things because ive told u the something a million times yet u go back and do the same ignorant thing. *And u said you’re a professor??? Hmmhmm..go figure!! *feels sorry for the community college*

[CHALDEANELVIS]

[
The Bible says: "For there is One Mediator between God and men, that man Jesus Christ" 1 Timothy 2:5


Another Biblical illogicality. If Jesus Christ = God, then we can rewrite the above sentences as "For there is One Mediator between God and men, and that man [is] God?"

So, if the Bible is right, Jesus Christ is not God. If Jesus Christ is God, then the Bible is at least wrong in one verse.

You guys ought to get out of the party stores and take a math or symbolic logic course.


Please explain to me how this verse proves Jesus was not God? .

You really are stupid aren't you? I never said that the verse proves Jesus was not God! I'll say it again slowly....

"If the Bible is right, Jesus Christ is not God. If Jesus Christ is God, then the Bible is at least wrong in one verse."

I do believe that Jesus is God. Which implies that the Bible is not without inconsistancies.

At least once a semester I get a student who just can't learn. God knows how he ever gets admitted. I should be used to dealing with your type.


Well, you can rant all you want but you never, ever, ever, ever answered any of my questions I've ever made, like how your still a Catholic in light of what I showed you Rome said. You are ANETHMA. Doesn't that feel good? I only wish I had a Church that could anethmatize it's people. A sysem full of wretched sinners like you and I, yet have the power to curse people into Hell. Where do I sign? But you're not Catholic so you're safe from that.

Renee, you implied Jesus is not God and "So, if the Bible is right, Jesus Christ is not God. If Jesus Christ is God, then the Bible is at least wrong in one verse" . The Bible IS right so you ARE saying Jesus is not God and has error. The Bible is NOT wrong in any verses. I will challenge you on any verse you give me. ANY. And God the FATHER is not a woman and that is blasphemy, but you were baptised so you're ok. I wonder how God the FATHER views Renee. You are nothing but a feminist viewing the world as if woman created everything, thus you say God is a woman. The Bible says men are of authority over woman. But not Renee's Bible. She believes the Bible is full of errors. I wonder what parts of the Bible are not full of errors and why Renee STILL hasn't answered the question I've asked many, many, many times. If God said "My words will NEVER pass away" and "My words are magnified HIGHER than My name" and 2 timothy 3:16, 2 Peter 1:15, 1 Peter 1:15-21, how then can't God preserve His word? Let's see how Renee dodges this one again. Remember, she's going to answer from a CATHOLIC perspective. Catholic, of course. That is, if she answers. So if Renee say's the Bible has errors, God lied and Renee is not a Catholic, but rather an atheist. Just submit to God already! (God the Father)

-Elvis

[CHALDEANELVIS]

I know you're going to say you do believe Jesus is God but that means nothing if you don't hold to His Word. Why? Because Jesus said My words will never pass and you say His words (the Bible) have Error! There's a contradiction. I just wanted to post that before you point out how stupid I am.

-elvis

[Samuel]

Exactly Rita. You hit the nail on the head. Whether they said we will go to hell or that we are "in danger" for our beliefs, it's the same thing.

We, as Catholics, can say (and our priests will support this even though I acknoledge that I'm a sinner) that John, Rudy, Ojeen, Elvis, and others are at risk of going to hell if they don't confess their sins to a priest, accept the Eucharist as the true Body and Blood of Christ, accept the immaculate concpetion of Mary, accept the magisterium of the Pope, and follow the rules of Canon Law. But we didn't. (Well I did just to be pissy but you didn't).

We can also say the same things to Umi and the other muslims BUT WE DON"T. We accept the differences and the rights of others to believe what they want.

As a libertarian (fiscal conservative/social liberal) Republican, this is what scares me about the power the evangelical christians think they have in the US. Everyone should read the book by the most promising woman in the Republican Party, Christine Todd Whitman -- "It's My Party Too."

In it, she demonstrates that without a centrist view, the Republican Party is doomed.

their u go labeling me once again. *this is retarded becuase your putting names on me of things i dont even represent. *your goal is to discredit me infront of of the people in this site so they wount listen or respect what i have to say about issues in reagrds to politics, literutre, philsophy, history and reiligions...your a very inserue woman renee....u need to stop labling me

and renee...stop being a close minded fundamentista right wing republican.

Renee is the most closed-minded right winged fundamentalist of 'em all. *Like I've always said. *Renee has a few fundamentalist buddies which she so adamantly summarizes their opinions for us. * That's the sort of Doctor she is.

So Renee, want some equality for women? *Then don't represent the "Strong" and "independent" woman as an inconsistent blubbering moron. *Maybe the rest of us will start respecting your kind. * :|

[John_5_24]

if you claim to help us in the teachings of our church, maybe u should respect all of its teachings rather than only the ones we share with u.

Rita,
I don't know what else to say to you. *I acknowledged to FF that I didn't believe everything your church espouses. *I am also more than happy to discuss any of those differences. *The problem is that before we discuss these differences, we have to have a standard from which to measure Truth. *The Catechism of the Catholic Church acknowledges the Bible as that standard, and in that I would agree.

So, if you want to discuss some of the other topics that you and Renee have brought up, I would be happy to, once you acknowledge the truth of Scripture. *Without that, there is no need to discuss, because my beliefs are based on the Scriptures as should yours be.

[renee]

Renee, you implied Jesus is not God and "So, if the Bible is right, Jesus Christ is not God. If Jesus Christ is God, then the Bible is at least wrong in one verse" . The Bible IS right so you ARE saying Jesus is not God and has error. The Bible is NOT wrong in any verses. I will challenge you on any verse you give me. ANY.

YOU ARE SAYING THAT JESUS IS NOT GOD. I PROVED USING RULES OF LOGIC THAT YOU CAN'T SAY THAT JESUS CHRIST IS GOD AND THE BIBLE IS NOT INCONSISTANT. SO YOU MUST BEGIN WITH AN ASSUMPTION. I CHOSE THE ASSUMPTION THAT JESUS CHRIST IS GOD, THEREFORE THE BIBLE IS INCONSISTANT.

YOU CHOOSE THAT THE BIBLE IS NOT INCONSISTANT, THEREFORE YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS NOT GOD. THAT WOULD BOTHER ME BUT, HEY, I'M NOT YOU.


And God the FATHER is not a woman and that is blasphemy, but you were baptised so you're ok. I wonder how God the FATHER views Renee. You are nothing but a feminist viewing the world as if woman created everything, thus you say God is a woman.

AND YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A CHAUVINIST VIEWING THE WORLD AS IF A MAN CREATED EVERYTHING. GOD IN NOT A CORPORAL BEING. GENDER IS DEFINED BY A CORPUS. YOU NEED TO HAVE SEX ORGANS TO DEFINE GENDER. THE BIBLE AUTHORS, BEING MEN, CHOSE TO DEFINE THE SPIRIT -- GOD -- AS MASCULINE. IT'S ONLY A LITERARY TECHNIQUE. AND THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE READERS UNDERSTOOD THAT GOD SHOULD HAVE RESPECT SO THEY MADE HIM/HER THE MOST RESPECTED MEMBER OF THE FAMILY UNIT -- THE FATHER. WELL BUDDY, THE MOTHER DESERVES THE SAME RESPECT AS THE FATHER. THEREFORE, IT IS AS CORRECT TO CALL GOD SHE/HER/MOTHER. AS IT IS TO REFER TO GOD AS HE/HIM/FATHER


The Bible says men are of authority over woman. But not Renee's Bible. She believes the Bible is full of errors.

OOOOOO! I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP. I'LL ADDRESS THAT WHOLE ISSUE IN ANOTHER TOPIC.

[Rita]

We've discussed this for the past 2 weeks. There's nothing left 2 discuss. People are just going back and forth and it's getting out of hand.

If you don't want to respect my teachings, that's fine. You are entitled to your own opinion just as I am to mine... and simply, I don't respect yours either.

[CHALDEANELVIS]

Renee, you implied Jesus is not God and "So, if the Bible is right, Jesus Christ is not God. If Jesus Christ is God, then the Bible is at least wrong in one verse" . The Bible IS right so you ARE saying Jesus is not God and has error. The Bible is NOT wrong in any verses. I will challenge you on any verse you give me. ANY.

YOU ARE SAYING THAT JESUS IS NOT GOD. I PROVED USING RULES OF LOGIC THAT YOU CAN'T SAY THAT JESUS CHRIST IS GOD AND THE BIBLE IS NOT INCONSISTANT. SO YOU MUST BEGIN WITH AN ASSUMPTION. I CHOSE THE ASSUMPTION THAT JESUS CHRIST IS GOD, THEREFORE THE BIBLE IS INCONSISTANT.

YOU CHOOSE THAT THE BIBLE IS NOT INCONSISTANT, THEREFORE YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS NOT GOD. THAT WOULD BOTHER ME BUT, HEY, I'M NOT YOU.


And God the FATHER is not a woman and that is blasphemy, but you were baptised so you're ok. I wonder how God the FATHER views Renee. You are nothing but a feminist viewing the world as if woman created everything, thus you say God is a woman.

AND YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A CHAUVINIST VIEWING THE WORLD AS IF A MAN CREATED EVERYTHING. GOD IN NOT A CORPORAL BEING. GENDER IS DEFINED BY A CORPUS. YOU NEED TO HAVE SEX ORGANS TO DEFINE GENDER. THE BIBLE AUTHORS, BEING MEN, CHOSE TO DEFINE THE SPIRIT -- GOD -- AS MASCULINE. IT'S ONLY A LITERARY TECHNIQUE. AND THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE READERS UNDERSTOOD THAT GOD SHOULD HAVE RESPECT SO THEY MADE HIM/HER THE MOST RESPECTED MEMBER OF THE FAMILY UNIT -- THE FATHER. WELL BUDDY, THE MOTHER DESERVES THE SAME RESPECT AS THE FATHER. THEREFORE, IT IS AS CORRECT TO CALL GOD SHE/HER/MOTHER. AS IT IS TO REFER TO GOD AS HE/HIM/FATHER


The Bible says men are of authority over woman. But not Renee's Bible. She believes the Bible is full of errors.

OOOOOO! I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP. I'LL ADDRESS THAT WHOLE ISSUE IN ANOTHER TOPIC.





Again, you dodged the most significant and important question I have been chasing you with for the last 10-12 posts. I am done speaking to you. You will have all your answers when you stand before God on judgement day. Please dont even bother to respond. I pray that you find truth.

-Elvis

[renee]

Life is strange. Who would have thunk that Renee (along with Rita) become the defenders of Catholocism on Chaldeanchat.net? * * :think:

[CHALDEANELVIS]

We've discussed this for the past 2 weeks. There's nothing left 2 discuss. People are just going back and forth and it's getting out of hand.

If you don't want to respect my teachings, that's fine. You are entitled to your own opinion just as I am to mine... and simply, I don't respect yours either.

Rita, you are entitled to your own opinion, absolutely. But if you want to say God is a monkey or God doesn't exist or He is a woman (not implying you said this), it does not mean your opinions are correct. Rita, I have to be honest, you don't know your own Catholic teachings. If you did, we wouldn't have gone through these topics CCC doctrinal issues. Please read what your catechism says in paragraphs 53, 55,85, 100, and 101-141. I have been doing a lot *of research about catholicism. If you want to get into it, I'd love to. You don't have to respect my teachings, but they come from God. So it's not my teachings you reject. There can only be One Truth and that is the inerrant, infallible Word of Scripture.

If you want to go over some topics or issues you still struggle with, I will be more than happy to, with the presupposition that you hold to the Word of God as perfect and without error. If not, we can first tackle that issue then get into what ever else you struggle with or lack knowlege. And please, if you want to engage in such topics, let's do it through PM's so that we can filter out other peoples mere opinions.

In Jesus Name,
Elvis

[sammiedebull]

its funny how people try to stuff beliefs and teachings down other peoples throats :)

if you want to hear a lectoure, have people more knowledgeable do it, i am sure there are church, mosque and temple teachings all th etime. You people all know bits and pieces but if you want it from someone who has stuided religion deeply than this site is the wrong place to look.

[ojeen1981]

Exactly Rita. You hit the nail on the head. Whether they said we will go to hell or that we are "in danger" for our beliefs, it's the same thing.

We, as Catholics, can say (and our priests will support this even though I acknoledge that I'm a sinner) that John, Rudy, Ojeen, Elvis, and others are at risk of going to hell if they don't confess their sins to a priest, accept the Eucharist as the true Body and Blood of Christ, accept the immaculate concpetion of Mary, accept the magisterium of the Pope, and follow the rules of Canon Law. But we didn't. (Well I did just to be pissy but you didn't).

We can also say the same things to Umi and the other muslims BUT WE DON"T. We accept the differences and the rights of others to believe what they want.

As a libertarian (fiscal conservative/social liberal) Republican, this is what scares me about the power the evangelical christians think they have in the US. Everyone should read the book by the most promising woman in the Republican Party, Christine Todd Whitman -- "It's My Party Too."

In it, she demonstrates that without a centrist view, the Republican Party is doomed.

their u go labeling me once again. *this is retarded becuase your putting names on me of things i dont even represent. *your goal is to discredit me infront of of the people in this site so they wount listen or respect what i have to say about issues in reagrds to politics, literutre, philsophy, history and reiligions...your a very inserue woman renee....u need to stop labling me

and renee...stop being a close minded fundamentista right wing republican.

Renee is the most closed-minded right winged fundamentalist of 'em all. *Like I've always said. *Renee has a few fundamentalist buddies which she so adamantly summarizes their opinions for us. * That's the sort of Doctor she is.

So Renee, want some equality for women? *Then don't represent the "Strong" and "independent" woman as an inconsistent blubbering moron. *Maybe the rest of us will start respecting your kind. * :|

well said bro!!!!

[Rita]

We've discussed this for the past 2 weeks. There's nothing left 2 discuss. People are just going back and forth and it's getting out of hand.

If you don't want to respect my teachings, that's fine. You are entitled to your own opinion just as I am to mine... and simply, I don't respect yours either.

Rita, you are entitled to your own opinion, absolutely. But if you want to say God is a monkey or God doesn't exist or He is a woman (not implying you said this), it does not mean your opinions are correct. Rita, I have to be honest, you don't know your own Catholic teachings. If you did, we wouldn't have gone through these topics CCC doctrinal issues. Please read what your catechism says in paragraphs 53, 55,85, 100, and 101-141. I have been doing a lot *of research about catholicism. If you want to get into it, I'd love to. You don't have to respect my teachings, but they come from God. So it's not my teachings you reject. There can only be One Truth and that is the inerrant, infallible Word of Scripture.

If you want to go over some topics or issues you still struggle with, I will be more than happy to, with the presupposition that you hold to the Word of God as perfect and without error. If not, we can first tackle that issue then get into what ever else you struggle with or lack knowlege. And please, if you want to engage in such topics, let's do it through PM's so that we can filter out other peoples mere opinions.

In Jesus Name,
Elvis

Are you kidding me? You are trying to make a point with the worst scenarios because I never said that. You are using the point that Jesus is a monkey or woman to make your argument sound better and sway people from my whole point because as soon as they read that, they will make my argument seem less valid.

Also, it's nice 2 know you've been researching on Catholicism lately. This is God's mysterious way of moving you closer to Him and hopefully follow what he actually wanted from all of us. You are false to ASSume that just reading and studying the Bible is going to get you into heaven. You have to realize that your actions speak louder than all. What good is it to read the Bible if you do not try to mirror the way Jesus was and the good He did in this world?

[sammiedebull]

I agree, you are trying to make her arguemet sound really stupid by highlighting what you did, it did not work!

kick his ass rita :)

[Anonymous]

We've discussed this for the past 2 weeks. There's nothing left 2 discuss. People are just going back and forth and it's getting out of hand.

If you don't want to respect my teachings, that's fine. You are entitled to your own opinion just as I am to mine... and simply, I don't respect yours either.

Rita, you are entitled to your own opinion, absolutely. But if you want to say God is a monkey or God doesn't exist or He is a woman (not implying you said this), it does not mean your opinions are correct. Rita, I have to be honest, you don't know your own Catholic teachings. If you did, we wouldn't have gone through these topics CCC doctrinal issues. Please read what your catechism says in paragraphs 53, 55,85, 100, and 101-141. I have been doing a lot *of research about catholicism. If you want to get into it, I'd love to. You don't have to respect my teachings, but they come from God. So it's not my teachings you reject. There can only be One Truth and that is the inerrant, infallible Word of Scripture.

If you want to go over some topics or issues you still struggle with, I will be more than happy to, with the presupposition that you hold to the Word of God as perfect and without error. If not, we can first tackle that issue then get into what ever else you struggle with or lack knowlege. And please, if you want to engage in such topics, let's do it through PM's so that we can filter out other peoples mere opinions.

In Jesus Name,
Elvis

Are you kidding me? You are trying to make a point with the worst scenarios because I never said that. You are using the point that Jesus is a monkey or woman to make your argument sound better and sway people from my whole point because as soon as they read that, they will make my argument seem less valid.

Also, it's nice 2 know you've been researching on Catholicism lately. This is God's mysterious way of moving you closer to Him and hopefully follow what he actually wanted from all of us. You are false to ASSume that just reading and studying the Bible is going to get you into heaven. You have to realize that your actions speak louder than all. What good is it to read the Bible if you do not try to mirror the way Jesus was and the good He did in this world?

The funny thing is the only thing I said wrong was the monkey thing because God existence and God being a Father, not mother was brought up all throughout the posts and you take the monkey point and blow it up. I guess you missed the parentheses where it said (not implying you said this). *

The only reason I'm studying the Catechism is so that I can answer to Catholics. There is tremendous fault in the CCC and I will point it out if necessary.

Where did I ever say just reading gets someone into Heaven?

How can you mirror who Jesus was if you and Renee believe the Bible has errors? What is there to mirror? Afterall, we could be reflecting an error.

By the way, I found a very interesting paragraph in the CCC concerning visions and holding to the Word of God.

65. "In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty."

[sammiedebull]

I believe the bible has been changed.

[BONO]

I just got back from church and our Homily (The sppech that the priest gives after the reading of the Bible) was discussing about the spiritually blind people. *Fr. Frank then talked about how there are a few websites that are questioning God our Lord Jesus Christ. *I knew immediately that he was referring to our website. *I must say that I was very dissapointed, and disgusted to hear that our website was indirectly brought up into today's homily as spiritually blind. :( *I know that there are a lot of great members in here that are very relegious and don't deserve such a thing. *But thanks to a few blind members, this website has given the wrong image.

These are my thoughts and not yours, and may our lord JESUS CHRIST heal all the blind across this website and across the world.

AMEN.

[Rita]

i guess I will make him aware of the Protestants on this site who say we are wrong in our beliefs and how they twisted the email they sent him because he failed to discuss their beliefs and when we defended ours, they thought we were corrupt. You can't email the priest bits and pieces of what is truly going on and not the entire story.

Also, I knew Father Frank was going to speak about this. I was waiting for the momemt.

[ojeen1981]

thats very unfortunate bono. *I have no idea what happened...but i know if someone calls themselves Catholic, they should know their Catholic church well and know that the catholic church belives that Jesus is Lord. *and that goes for those who call themselves protestant as well.

[renee]

*I must say that I was very dissapointed, and disgusted to hear that our website was indirectly brought up into today's homily as spiritually blind. :( *I know that there are a lot of great members in here that are very relegious and don't deserve such a thing. *But thanks to a few blind members, this website has given the wrong image.


I'm glad that Fr. Frank is looking at this website. I think it's important for the Chaldean leaders to see the diversity of opinions and beliefs that exist in our community.

The issue emailed him was a complete corruption of the intent of the original poster. I do not believe that person questioned the divinity of Jesus. Just the "DIRECT" authorship of the bible by God. Catholics don't believe that the bible is meant to be taken literally. We believe in evolution and gravity and the fact that the earth revolves around the sun.

There's a difference between being irreverant and being spiritually blind. I, myself, am irreverant. But I am a very spiritual person.

[sammiedebull]

according to the religios scripture, I HOPE he does NOT look at the website, SURE the religion section is great and expresses views from all sides but other things like drinking, sex and drugs would disappoint the priest!

I find it really funny that certain people try to push us on religion but they are doing a lot of things against religion such as sex, such as drugs, drinking, etc.

[Rita]

i don't think he is actually viewing this but u never know. sam, check if the priest's email matched any members on this site. If so, ban him. LOL j/k

[John_5_24]

I am the one that emailed Father Frank. *I said that from the beginning.
The email also contains my name. *I have no guilt or remorse over that email or posting it here.

Rita, For the 38th time, I do NOT agree with a lot of the Catholic teachings. *I ACKNOWLEDGED THAT IN THE EMAIL. *FF ACKNOWLEDGED IT IN HIS RESPONSE.

You guys are so far from seeing the point and my intent it's outrageous. *I did not misrepresent the messages that were being brought about here on this board. *Professing Catholics denying the deity of Christ and the Authorship of the Bible are serious issues. *I am sorry if you are so blinded by the fact that a non Catholic has pointed this out to you that are unable to consider my points. *That is why I emailed FF, he confirmed what I have been saying, and instead of rethinking your position, you continue to malign me and now throw your own church under the bus as well.

[John_5_24]

Just the "DIRECT" authorship of the bible by God.

Renee, since you feel this was the only valid question posed to FF, I will answer you from YOUR OWN CATECHISM of the Catholic Church:

II. INSPIRATION AND TRUTH OF SACRED SCRIPTURE

105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."69

"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself."70

106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. "To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more."71

107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures."72

108 Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book." Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, a word which is "not a written and mute word, but the Word is incarnate and living".73 If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures."74




Now, I ask you, how much of OFFICIAL Catholic doctrine do you know?? *You also eluded to the Catholic Church acknowledging evolution as the form of Creation. *Are you serious????? * Do you really have a clue what the Catholic Church believes????????????????

[sammiedebull]

damn snitch :) joking, so what if the priest knows and views the site, i think once ge reads other parts of the site he will not even care what is written here.

[renee]

Just the "DIRECT" authorship of the bible by God.

Renee, since you feel this was the only valid question posed to FF, I will answer you from YOUR OWN CATECHISM of the Catholic Church:

II. INSPIRATION AND TRUTH OF SACRED SCRIPTURE

105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."??


Exactly, you gloss over the "divinely revealed realities" This refers ONLY to the matters of God, not the creation of the world and gravity and quantum mechanics. *:bang:

[John_5_24]

Exactly, you gloss over the "divinely revealed realities" This refers ONLY to the matters of God, not the creation of the world and gravity and quantum mechanics. *:bang:

Renee,
I will gladly post the Catechism's references to Creation when I get home this evening. *

I didn't want to bore you with one of those abhorrently long postings by one of those darn Christians. * :lol:

[John_5_24]

Oh, and by the way, do you really believe that any church denies gravity? *If so, can you cite where this is recorded?

[renee]

Wow John, you really need a life. Were you sitting there waiting for me to respond. I don't really care what MY cathechism says about creation. If you're doing it for me, don't bother bc I won't read it anyway. I look to MY church for spiritual guidance AFTER I've done MY research.

I guess I'm at a loss as you why you find it so hard to understand that I can question the authority of the church.

[sammiedebull]

ya, these ultra religious types need to chill out :)

[CHALDEANELVIS]

Amazing, Renee has yet to answer the questions I have been asking for the last 20 posts. Who can blame her. She's a professing Catholic, not a doctrinal, whatever that is. A word comes to mind.....anethma. I sure love that word. Don't worry Renee, I am seldomly on here anymore because I am convinced you are spirtually dead and don't know a thing about Christianity or Catholicism. Nor have you answered any of my questions. I know you are going to come back with an ad hominem attack to make the rest of the viewers think you are right. But let them know that you couldn't answer to any of your own Catholic doctrine. You my friend, are not Catholic.

You believe in evolution, so do I. So who created the world Renee? Don't go crazy with this question, just answer it nice and calmly.

By the way, I also am a firm believer in gravity, a gravatarian if you will.

[Rita]

if there are anymore attacks on ANYONE and their beliefs, this thread will be locked!!!

Future posts should ONLY refer to your thoughts about the the email and whether you agree or disagree and have any questions. If not, move on. I will have 2 filter out many of these posts 2morrow when I get the chance to go through them all.

[UmiSayz]

Amazing, Renee has yet to answer the questions




Umm looks whos talkin! :roll:

[renee]

if there are anymore attacks on ANYONE and their beliefs, this thread will be locked!!!

Future posts should ONLY refer to your thoughts about the the email and whether you agree or disagree and have any questions. If not, move on. I will have 2 filter out many of these posts 2morrow when I get the chance to go through them all.

I'm trying my hardest Rita, not to respond to the childish attacks on me. I shall go to heaven for my patience. *:angel: *:applause:

[CHALDEANELVIS]

This I doubt as well. Nonetheless, Renee just leaves it as "childish acts" even though she has for the most part gave an answer to every other persons claims, except of course, the most vital questions concerning her salvation and her doctrinal statements. Renee why don't you swallow your pride and just submit to God the FATHER already? and Rita, why don't you rebuke your girl on this heresy and non sense she proclaims? *:shock:

[Rita]

Because I've had enough and stated my beliefs. I don't care what any of you have 2 say. I'm just going to watch what you all say and delete unnecessary posts. BTW, I've deleted many of hers also.